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milford, CT,

Anybody have any opinions on adding sand to improve drainage. I have noticed that there are some growers who are beginning to use sand to decrease organic % and focussing more on the whole soil.Organic %, soil test results and drainage to avoid disease. Any comments welcome. Mark

4/3/2014 8:47:11 PM

Bethlehem CT

Hi Mark, It is my understanding that adding sand to a clay soil will not work. It will make soil that is like a brick when it dries out.
If your soil is a sandy loam or a loam adding sand will increase the soils drainage. I think well drained soil is very important to reducing pressure from root diseases. If a soil is very sandy it can be hard to keep water and nutrients in the plants root zone as sand does not hold them very well. This could be advantageous to a grower that is drip feeding soluble nutrients day after day(The soil is just a medium to hold nutrients and water.)

4/5/2014 6:40:11 AM

Muddy Waters

I dont understand the adding sand to clay making bricks? I have sandy loam now I have been adding sand little by little for years.It loosens the soil and is non binding.The sand these guys are using must contain portland cement.Sand by its self is non binding.I added a lot last year 5 yds per 1600 sg feet.I think it may have hurt my nitrogen levels.But by no means made the soil harder.just the opposite.Take a handfull of sand and add it to your soil,say 4 parts(soil) to 1 part (sand).then mix & see for your self.

4/5/2014 7:00:06 AM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

If you have real heavy clay and add a little sand and till when wet, it will make bricks when it dries. It takes a LOT of sand to loosen up heavy clay.. With your loam soils, you have a mix of sand, silt and clay, but not enough clay to make it too sticky.

My soil is in a creek valley that has about 3' of silt loam to sandy loam over a couple feet of clayey sand and about 80' of pure sand. It has a normal water table about 5' below the surface. The soil is well drained, as flood water soaks in quickly. Due the valley turning into a winding, wooded limestone canyon downstream it has poor air drainage and unusually high humidity. Cool air in the evening sinks in and can't get out. The trees on the sides of the valley limit the sun's ability to dry out the soil. This micro-climate helps root rot diseases flourish in the soil. I had to dig drainage ditches and raise the planting sites and use systemic phosphite fungicide to be able to grow pumpkins. The sand that I place under pumpkins gets spread out and tilled in. I still have to be careful to not over water: in the drought of 2012 I got some of the root rot started just from trying to cool the plants in the 105 degree heat.

4/5/2014 8:16:36 AM

Oregon

handy

the natives used to make adobe bricks from clay and sand and hay i believe, but you have to have the correct amount and type of clay,sand... this is what they are refering to i believe.

Gary

there are MANY links here is one

www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-make-adobe-brick‎

4/6/2014 12:35:23 PM

Hinckley MN

The clay is the cement and the sand acts as the aggregate. The straw in bricks act like rebar in modern construction, tieng things together. The proportions matter. If you add 4inches of sand and till 6-8 inches deep, there won't be enough clay to bind all the sand. Adding fine organic matter also seperates the clay particles and the combination of large volumes of organic mater and sand can create a soil similar to loam. None of the additions change the soil below the level of incorporation, so beware of creating a swimming pool effect.

4/6/2014 3:22:45 PM

Muddy Waters

Yes this year no sand,I will be adding 50 yds of the best compost in Michigan.about 5 yds per plant on 800 sq feet.I always added lots of sand,I must have a different kind of clay ,because it never got harder,only looser each year.Drainage is important thats what I have been shooting for.I have 2 feet of good sandy loam now,it is laying on top of 2 feet of concrete,asphalt,bricks & ceramic tile.which is on top of wet land flood zone.So even though Im in a 50 year flood zone.This is a raised bed,which drains quickly after heavy rainfalls.Im on the river so my water is almost endless.It will take a 2 month drought to dry up the river completely.So I am hopeful my soil is ready to make the perfect kin.I just hope the weather cooperates in 2014.Thanks for all the input.I hope this helped Mark also, who started this post.I believe this was Marks post??Hard to remember all the names on here.

4/6/2014 9:06:19 PM

Muddy Waters

lol Yes I see it is Mark!lol

4/6/2014 9:06:55 PM

Omaha, Ne.

I'll let you know. I added sand and compost. All I know is you better add something and a lot of it. or when the summer heat sucks all of the water out. you'll be left with a 1000Sqf clay brick. Roots die fast trying to live in it.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=203372

4/8/2014 7:29:13 PM

Torrance, Ca.

LOL Darren,,,,,,,,,, I added 600 pounds to each site last year with compost and had soft soil all the way through the season.

Now,,,,,,,, if I could just figure out how to get that disease I caused out,,,,,,,,,, I may do ok:)

4/8/2014 8:37:07 PM

Muddy Waters

too funny

4/8/2014 8:37:36 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Handy, if your patch is in a floodplain like mine, you probably have silt and not clay. Silt particles are way smaller than sand, but coarser than clay. Clays usually won't settle out in a floodplain, as they stay suspended in the flood water until they hit still water. The sands settle out closer to the stream channel, where there is more current and silts will settle out where velocities drop.

4/8/2014 8:43:12 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

Chris, when were you in Vegas?

4/8/2014 9:01:28 PM

Omaha, Ne.

There ya go.. Got me back on soil again. ever wonder why some do so well.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Global_soils_map_USDA.jpg

4/8/2014 9:57:02 PM

Omaha, Ne.

600 lbs thats all chris...I'm more like 8000lbs plus compost.
I should have one big brick. :))

4/8/2014 10:03:17 PM

Torrance, Ca.

lol Darren!

A couple months ago Luke:)

4/8/2014 10:10:47 PM

Torrance, Ca.

And I'm sure I would of known quicker then two months ;)

4/8/2014 10:59:58 PM