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New Hampshire

Can someone explain base saturation in simple terms so even I can understand it? Does organic % effect it? Can calcium base saturation go over 100%? Thanks

1/14/2004 7:31:29 PM

New Hampshire

Anybody???

1/15/2004 3:23:26 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Jim,
Try this link, it's hard to digest much less explain. Some of these guys can plain English it (oh Tremor?) but not me...
http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~blpprt/IL64.html

1/15/2004 3:48:30 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Base Saturation can't go over 100%. But it can be less.

I've labored with how to simplify this answer for days. Kyle's link supplies the best technical explaination but might blow right over the head of the average enthusiast. For many years after school, I just took the teachers word for it that BS rules wre true & that should suffice. I hated soils. But in time, I wanted to understand "WHY?". That's just my nature. Probably why I hated soils. It's hard to just live with the "answer". So let's try to simplify it in terms we can all relate to.

You're hosting a party. The dining room has only enough room for 100 to sit at dinner. But you have accidentally invited more than 100. The menu you offered the guests was Calcium, Potassium & Magnesium. The RSVP's indicated the guests have ordered:

85 Calcium dinners
10 Magnesium dinners
5 Potassium dinners

You being the host are a pumpkinhead & therefor pretty anal. You want everyone served at the same time in exactly the right ratios with minimal waste.

The cook knows this & should prepare the meals exactly in these ratios. His pots will only hold this much prepared food so if anyone changes their mind now, there wouldn't be enough of anything else to fill the other orders. Likewise something would go uneaten. <<Base Saturation soils theory>>

continued

1/17/2004 7:23:38 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

But some guests have changed their minds. You tell the cook. He gets mad & dumps <<But we can't dump the contents can we?>> the contents of a pot & prepares more Potassium dinners <<same as us applying a heavy potash application when the soil test results indicate it's not needed>>. The new Potassium dinners have just displaced some Calcium & some Magnesium dinners. Remembering the cook can only serve 100 at a time, some guests now have to wait.

Within reason, the soil kitchen has more pots. The soil cook can hold additional food in the other pots. But to fill the order, the ratios will be different. Some soil scientists <<Party Hosts?>> subscribe to the theory that as long as the smallest amount of prepared dinners required to meet the guests needs is available, the left over meals are of no consequence. This is known as "meeting the need". Others feel that some of the guests won't eat a full meal if they know there are pots of other types of food in still in the kitchen. <<This debate rages within the soil scientist community & may never go away. For sure, the world isn't starving as a result of this issue anyway. And records have been set on soils in both conditions. So relax a bit>>

continued

1/17/2004 7:24:12 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

There is another matter though.

Having the wrong pH is like not having enough waiters. Since the list of orders was made available ahead of time, the correct amount of ingredients were ordered & arrived in the cooks food delivery. <<The soils total pounds nutrient>> The food got cooked, but the staff can't serve everyone at the same time. Perhaps they can get 80 plates out before the first guest finished his meal. <<same as BS not equaling 100% so pounds nutrient *AVAILABLE* is different than desired>> The ratios in the pots can still match the ratios on the RSVP's, but some guests are still not going to eat at this sitting <<Maybe next year after you soil test & apply the correct amount of lime or sulfur as indui=icated>>. Preparing more meals <<adding fertilizer>> won't help much in this situation because the <<wrong pH>> number of waiters is still to small for this party <<this growing season>>.

I hate the way this reads & it's not exactly correct. But does it help?

Steve

1/17/2004 7:24:21 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

ohhh lovely...now I have to hire a waiter for my garden...I believe the thing to do here would be get more bartenders. :)

1/17/2004 8:26:06 AM

New Hampshire

Yes Steve it does help some. I appreciate the effort you put into my question.

1/17/2004 12:08:22 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I just read this again & now I thoroughly hate it! LOL

Forget everything I said. It's horrible. The worst bit of trash I ever typed. I'm going to give this some more thought. There is a way to make the BS/CEC/#'s available picture clearer if I think about it.

Steve

1/17/2004 12:28:39 PM

Indiana

Does BS vary with soil type?
Steve

1/17/2004 1:32:08 PM

Montoursville, PA

I have a better idea. Ya all get six packs and show up at my patch with a trailer load of some kind of manure. We dont' really care from what animal it hails. I'll fire up the steaks and cool the beer. The basic saturation does not begin untill the bull shit is on the patch. This is a lesson in BS. It's impossible to learn any other way and if you have enough humus in the soil it amounts to about as much. How many steaks shall I order? Is this making any sense?

1/17/2004 6:00:34 PM

Cincinnati,OH

So there is a difference between maximum and optimal amounts ?

1/22/2004 6:55:39 PM

Montoursville, PA

BS/CEC# will more or less take care of themselves anyway. With the amounts of manures and composts going in with continued increasing humus it is not all that important. It's one of those learned things you cover with a beer and another load of manure. Your pumpkin does not understand it either. Ruth Stout author of The No Work Garden Book gardening at age eighty said she ask her corn about these things and the corn didn't give a hoot. I'm sure it has been on my reports but I've factually never paid that any attention what so ever.

1/22/2004 11:00:47 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I'll take a coors light and a nice steak medium to well done. Doc, your a riot at times. But the way you come across, you really express your point. I have a neighbor who is 84 years old.You can learn so much from someone who is a old timer. You can talk all you want about doing this or that. But your soil isn't anything until you do the things Doc says. I think some guys think they can add manure and compost and have great soil in a year. But it takes time and the more years you add everything you can, the BETTER.

1/22/2004 11:19:51 PM