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Roanoke Il

I find myself moving to NC in the spring. Up in wisconsin I've always seen my best days of growth when it has been in the mid 90's for highs and low's in the 70's. In your opinion why hasn't there been a punpkin grown over 1000lb in the south. Is it lack of sunlight, soil, bugs, fungal deases, high temps, angle of the sun. Please reply mark

11/17/2005 5:39:27 AM

sevierville, Tn

thats a good question, maybe all of the above. This will be my second year so i got no idea. If the 2nd year curse doesn't get me, i'm going to try to get to 1000. Of course maybe I'm better off not knowing why. ;)

11/18/2005 11:12:55 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I'm guessing the stronger solar energy & shorter daylength. So the sun's angle might be the culprit.

11/19/2005 12:24:34 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

Plant stress leading to early(premature) maturation.
We have a lot of stresses placed on the plant. From the south's known heat and humidity to the ever present mildews. Not sure where in NC you will be, but if it's close to us in SC, be prepared to meet the pickle worms. Simply put, it is just more of everything bad. All these pressures lead to a taxed plant and a shorter fruit growth period. This would be my answer to your question. You may also ask "One Dude" here on BP, who is the Ga record holder and Wallace Simmons who is the NC record holder. Between you and me, I'd love to grow in NC. That slightly cooler climate than SC has been calling me for years :) Good luck Mark and welcome aboard. BF
PS. Depending on where and when you may settle, you may want to try to make our winter meeting held in north GA in Feb.

11/19/2005 2:01:54 AM

Sparta, NC

Mark, Welcome to NC. Glad to have you here. I live in the mountains so I'm not as affected by the heat as the other growers in the state.Of course I'm still learning to grow these things. I think it possible to grow em over 1000 lbs here just figuring out how is the key. Let me know where your moving to.
Sam

11/20/2005 10:15:33 PM

Mocksville, NC

welcome Mark, Look forward to growing with ya!

11/21/2005 2:51:22 PM

central Missouri

I've wondered about this too. What is the difference between mid 90's up north and mid 90's down south? I wonder if it might be the number of hours each day with high temps. Here in Missouri this year the mercury would climb above 90 by 9:30 in the morning and would not dip down into the 80's again until 9 or 10 at night. This went on for several months. On those days when it got hot in the northern states and Canada how many hours did it stay above 90? How many days in a row did the temps rise into the 90's? My theory is that leaves are wilted for a higher percentage of daylight hours down south even when the high temperature for a given day is the same in Wisconsin as it is in Missouri.
Mark

11/22/2005 11:13:17 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

This may help better explain "the difference between mid 90's up north and mid 90's down south":
http://bigpumpkins.com/msgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=19&p=135333

11/23/2005 12:19:07 AM

central Missouri

Thanks Brian. I did a little checking on temperatures comparing Minneapolis and St. Louis to see if what I thought happened this summer bore any semblance to reality. Here is what I found. For the months of July and August of 2005 Minneapolis averaged 1 hour and 12 minutes above 90 degrees out of an average of 14 hours and 35 minutes of daylight each day. St. Louis averaged 3 hours and 37 minutes above 90 degrees out of an average of 14 hours of daylight each day.
So what does this mean? Maybe nothing, but, if the assumption is made that leaves do not produce what is needed for fruit growth while they are wilted, and assuming for the sake of argument that wilting occurs above 90 degrees as was my experience this year, then St. Louis was at quite a disadvantage. Combining time over 90 degrees with the difference in daylight hours, Minneapolis had leaves capable of photosynthesis for an average of 3 hours/day more than did St. Louis for the months of July and August. Add to this the other factors introduced by the heat and it all adds up to relatively smaller fruit. But it's still worth growing in the south because growers in any given region are all competing under similar conditions, and it's probably just a matter of time before a heat tolerant strain is developed. If/when that happens good watering practices, control of insects and disease, ... could result in big pumpkins down south.
Mark

11/23/2005 4:31:52 AM

Carrollton, Ga.

Hi Markbirkmann,
Very interesting information. Where could I find that for my area. I live in Carrollton, Georgia. We are fifty miles west of Atlanta. I remember a few seasons back that it was 89 degrees at 11:00 PM. I think one of the things that hurts us is that we don't cool off at night as much as other areas. I was talking to one of NC growers that lives in the Mtns. a few years ago, and he said they get fairly hot in the day but cool off good at night. The NC big ones are averaging about 150 to 200 pounds heavier than the big GA. ones. I think it is because they cool off better at night in the mtns. They are only a couple of hundred miles north of us, but they are a couple of thousand feet higher in elev. and this lets them cool off better at night. So Mark P. you can still grow a pretty big one down here. Are you going to be moving to Mtn. area? It is hot here in Ga. but we are going for 1000 this year anyway.

Take care,
Doug Adams
Jn. 3:16

11/23/2005 7:24:25 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Good data Mark!

There are some seeds that already exhibitted better heat tolerance than others. Our 281 did well for a couple novice southern growers this year 400-500 lbs on late sets.
The 600.5 Gregory & 950 Boyton also have done well.

845 Bobier seems to wilt less than other seeds but this might not mean anything in mean weight by geography. A search of AGGC by state is in order.

11/23/2005 8:40:32 AM

South Hill, Virginia

Where in NC are you moving Mark? I'm in Virginia but right on the NC line. I've never been able to get much more than 50 days of fruit growth and I believe it's a combination of heat, humidity, mildew and every pest known to man. I find squash bugs crawling around my yard in february.

I still think 1000 LBS is possible...Tim Herring made it to 913 a year ago and he isn't far at all from NC. What we need are some real serious growers doing some Nesbitt-like things to really see what the potential is down here.

11/23/2005 10:20:07 AM

central Missouri

Doug, I found the info for Minneapolis here
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMIC/2005/7/1/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

and the info for St. Louis here
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSTL/2005/7/1/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

This was a very tough year in Missouri, as it was elsewhere, due to heat and drought. Several former state record holders lost all and had nothing to bring to the weigh-off in Republic Missouri. And yet, wouldn't you know it, a new state record was set at 838.5 lbs by Richard Bottorf. I asked him what seed he used and at that time he wasn't sure other than to say it was a Kennedy seed. I'll send him an email and get the info from him. I'll report back to you after I get a few for myself:) I believe the 838.5 Bottorf 05 was open pollenated, I'll check on that too. At any rate at least the parent seed is a seed that a number of southern growers should use next year to see if this was a fluke or if there may really be some heat resistance inherent in this seed line. Over the past year I've tried to research heat resistant seeds but with little success. I do not have aggc access. Also, upon contacting some growers from southern states I found that they had grown a big one in a year when the weather was relatively cool. The only seed I could say for sure -might- have some heat resistant characteristics is the 845 Bobier. But then again this is one of the most widely grown seeds ever and I've read conflicting reports regarding it's heat tolerance. Just because identifying these seeds is tough doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Maybe we could start a thread on pumpkins we know of personally that were grown in a combination of high temperatures and shorter days found down south.

11/23/2005 1:47:11 PM

central Missouri

We could look for similarities in genetic heritage and also possibly start a cooperative effort to test any seeds we identify as good candidates by each committing to growing one or two of them next year and reporting our findings back to the group. What do we really have to lose? We can continue planting hot seeds only to find out they're only hot for northern growers or we can work together to find seeds that can grow 'em big in our unique conditions. Isn't this essentially what the guys up north have been doing for the past 15 or 20 years?

11/23/2005 1:47:27 PM

Roanoke Il

Great info guys every bit will helps. The wifes job is only 5 miles from the virgina border. Who knows I might just end up in virgina. Where ever I can find a place with alittle room to grow hopefully with some good soil. but most likely it will be a building year unless i fall upon a well establied soil. mark

11/23/2005 5:11:07 PM

Hayes, Virginia

Mark welcome to the area.
Ed

11/25/2005 10:02:57 AM