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Long Island,New York

Okie....there are vining and bush varieties or "phases" of both. I will tell you what I know but caveat emptor---I don't know as much as some others like Brad, Alun, and our new member Peter Glazebrook, and others. Fresh marrow seeds that we grow for giants all vine as far as I know. I grew some old-old WR Bernard Lavery 1991 seeds a couple years ago...was surprised they even germinated being like 15 years old.....I got 2-3 to germinate and grew plants of them to sib. One plant struggled from the onset, the others struggled then grew fine. One was bush...two were vining. When I brought the situation up to an english grower I was told as the seeds age they tend to grow like a bush variety while a younger seed will grow as the vining type. Thats why I labelled it as a "phase" above. Thats all I know about that.
Marrows can be any color from white/yellow to almost black, striped, and eventually mature/age to orange. I think Boom Boom has a marrow in her diary changing to a GASP ! pumpkin.
While I prefer the "crock" style (dark green/black with alligator skin and grooves/ridges) there are competition strains of yellows, smooth, lime green ones etc. The smooth skinned ones can be confused with large zucchini's at a contest...especially when young. The stems are similar and unfortunately the largest zucchini you could ever grow will likely be smaller than a young cull off a marrow. Thats why I said "how would you tell the difference at a contest?".
When one contest refused to allow my giant green squash as an entry in the biggest squash contest I out-smarted them and entered a marrow in the giant zucchini(any squash) contest...the judges couldnt tell them apart.

2/13/2010 8:59:15 AM

Netherlands

Glenn, there must have been quite a bit of contamination in the marrow line over the years as many growers open pollinated their marrows and still do. We call them "courgettes" here which of course is the French term. I have also heard that some call a zucchini a marrow once it gets past a certain size or age (that is, being less edible).

My 90.6 marrow was grown by a few Dutch growers and all were brought to the Dutch Giant Veg weigh-off last September. None were the same colour, ranging from green through yellow to orange, but all having more or less the same long, thin shape (http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=121143 - marrow 1,3,4,5). The 90.6 was green, but its sisters eventually turned half orange after about a month off the plant.

The older pictures of competition marrows (pre-1950s) show striped green and yellow marrows, somewhat like oversized "Tiger Cross" marrows look like now. A Dutch summer squash (curcubita pepo) specialist, Ton Vreeken, suspects that the marrow somehow got mixed up with another summer squash, likely the Yellow Crooked Neck type which would have given it the alligator skin and the yellow/orange colour.

I don't think the age of the seed has anything to do with the shape of the plant other than the older seeds might have been more recently crossed with a bush variety and the newer ones are purer, but I can't prove that.

Many young marrows start out crooked as if they were hanging off a bush like a zucchini, so I can imagine that being a problem for judges. As they get bigger some straighten out.

2/13/2010 1:19:06 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

Oh my.... well I have grown zukes, definite zucchini blimps in 12-20# range... so Marrow should be even bigger?

My issue here is one extended family that likes to show up and 'take over' a contest to drag home all the prize $ they can... so help in identifying a competition marrow from a zuke is greatly appreciated.

2/14/2010 10:05:53 PM

Netherlands

Deb, shoot me your home address and I'll send you some marrow seeds that will not look like zucchinis. They don't have smooth skin like most zukes. They have done ok for me - I'd like to say how well, but you have to be careful on the squash forum these days :).

2/15/2010 3:19:30 AM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

Okay, I will if I can find your email :) Thank you.

2/15/2010 8:44:09 AM

Pinesdale,mt

marrow zucchini are the same, Brad is right. zucchini=immature. marrow=mature fruit. the term 'zucchini'[little squash] didn't become commonly used until the 1930s. marrow are like tomatoes, determinate or indeterminate, red, pink, yellow, cherry,roma,round,giant. let a scale identify a competition marrow and the tastebuds a zucchini

2/15/2010 1:41:01 PM

Baltimore

jwest you are incorrect marrows and zucchini are not the same at all.
you might try look at book "The Compleat Squash: by Amy Goldman pg 143.
Also you might try contacting Dr Harry Paris the squash expert.

2/16/2010 11:35:00 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

I looked for that book... kiYiii it is not a cheap one!

2/17/2010 2:24:32 AM

Navarre,OH

What would you concider a Joynson marrow? Alligator or smooth type skin?

4/15/2010 1:56:21 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

Gonna find out here.

4/16/2010 12:40:50 AM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

The Book. Since I checked in mid Feb, came way down in price. Must have gone into reprint. Just got it delivered brand new hardcover for like $26 off Amazon. Instead of $59 plus ship for well abused used copy. GREAT book, need to park and read!

5/21/2010 11:39:36 PM