Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Disking/tilling now can turn up the pupas and kill them.

10/14/2007 9:09:47 PM

Leamington, Ont.

After you 'till, I would also spread a granular grub killer and water it in.

10/14/2007 10:21:15 PM

Long Island,New York

Granular grub killer kills grubs. At this stage the svb's are either eggs or pupae and if they eggs happen to have hatched because of any unusually warm weather they will die when the cold gets here or starve cause there's no vines to eat. All spreading grubb killer does in reference to svb's now is waste money, pollute the water table, and eventually tie a noose around the necks of responsible gardeners/farmers who need to use chemicals, through excessive restrictive controls and laws created because of irresponsible people.

10/15/2007 6:50:54 AM

Leamington, Ont.

eggs this time of year??? I'm realllly doubting that one!

10/15/2007 7:06:15 AM

Leamington, Ont.

I have built a routine over the last several years to combat SVB's and I think I'm doing a good job. I see less each year, moths and/or grubs that have entered. So I guess I'll continue 'polluting the water' cause ya know what? What ever I'm doing seems to be working!!!

10/15/2007 7:11:52 AM

Long Island,New York

Ok...I dont know what kind of weather you have had but we have basically just had a second summer here. All the tomatoes that usually end up green at frost are red and quite delicious. Its a known fact that there are often multiple waves of svb's if the climate allows...read up--you might learn something. Irrisponsibility often decreases with knowledge so maybe there's hope.....

10/15/2007 2:51:26 PM

Leamington, Ont.

10/15/2007 5:04:55 PM

Leamington, Ont.

LOL the was supposed to look like this :D (happy there is still hope)My wife dosen't think so...

10/15/2007 5:17:57 PM

Eng6900

hamilton,Ontario

ummmm thannku...i didntmean to start a war here I just get burned every year...I just want a decent size pumpkinm for once.My wife says quit cause i go down every year.....

10/18/2007 9:58:51 AM

Drew Papez apapez@sympatico.ca

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

LIpumpkin, why the hate? There is no need to be rude or condescending.

I do agree that imidacloprid based chemicals wont really do to much at this point of the season.

There definitely wont be any eggs right now, just the pupas. LIpumpkin, you even said there are no vines to eat...where would these eggs be laid?

However, grubs can be killed right now if you want to use a soild fumigant, such as basamid, but that will kill everything in the soil, including the beneficial worms, and bacteria (also kills phyto and other problems).

There are more than one generation of SVBs (down south) but I cant recall it happening here. Being that you are from further north than Windsor, I doubt you will get a second get. We have had 90 degree weather until 1 week ago. I have SVB pheremone traps out, and no 2nd gen. has shown up.

10/18/2007 10:28:44 AM

Ontario

Eng6900 I live down the road from you, theres nothing you can do right now, I use merit, talstar and warrior T email me at apapez@sympatico,ca and we can talk.

drew

10/18/2007 11:47:16 AM

Leamington, Ont.

Hey wait...LI didn't you shoot the barn cat??? who's irresponsible??? anyhow, I refuse to fall into the trap/game of finding someone to 'cyber fight' with all winter.

I really don't beleive that 'nothing' can be done right now. If you till and bring up the puppas either killing some and/or damaging and exposing some, dosen't throwing down some grub killer to finish off the ones that may have survived make sense? It really does to me!!!! I'll continue doing this regardless. I'll do whatever it takes to get an edge on these svb's.

I did see a second wave in '05 (I beleive it was) But those eggs hacted WAY before october! When I removed the vine in Oct, there were no unhatched eggs.

10/18/2007 12:25:58 PM

Big Kahuna 25

Ontario, Canada.

Diatomaceous Earth. I'm not sure if this would work on SVB grubs that have already pupated in the soil. But it is organic.

10/18/2007 3:40:24 PM

Long Island,New York

Hate? Who said anything about hate or implied hate? Way off there Jordan. Sav, Im not looking to cyber-fight....just educate...and that aint gonna work I see. So...I'm done. Would be nice if Steve or John chimed in...professionals in the biz who know the deal....but, maybe they gave up too. So...you -all go on taking advice from the posts these days from the new growers who have never grown a pumpkin before and think the know soil and all things pumpkin, then scratch your head in October while sucking on a high priced bottled water...........

10/19/2007 3:16:07 PM

Leamington, Ont.

Maybe it just came across as rude to me. I'm not one to argue so I'm not worked up about it at all.

I posted a very similar response on 8/27/2007 and was told I was right by one of the best growers in the world. I did not want to post this link, but....

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=14&p=211789

10/19/2007 5:59:17 PM

Long Island,New York

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////(savspada/yahoo/ca)
I have been tilling the soil in the fall and applying a granular grub killer (for lawns) and watering it in deeply.
Not sure how effective it really is, but I like to think it helps!?
8/27/2007 12:32:55 AM

pap Rhode Island
sav is right on. plus dont till you plants back into the soil. pull them out
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Well....you didnt want to have to do it ...but you did.....lol. Well...I didnt wanna have to say this but I will : Pap is wrong. There...ya happy?...lol. Grubbex is effective on adults and larvae. SVB's will be pupae in the soil in the fall. You'll just kill the earthworms and other bugs in the fall. Tilling will bring pupae to the surface where they may be more exposed to cold and predators or send them deeper so they cannot climb out in spring and tilling is beneficial....(I like to till the day before a hard freeze is expected or a prolonged cold spell.)

10/19/2007 11:01:38 PM

Leamington, Ont.

There...Good advice/opinion...Thank you!
I really like the tilling before the first hard frost.

Yes I agree Grubbex will kill some worms, but I also find each spring that I have tons of worms back in the patch. If I had to choose between heavy SVB attack or a healthy worm population it's a tough decision for me. SVB's are very abundant here and have pretty well put an end to my season early every year (accept for this year). If reducing my worm count also reduces final pumpkin weight, I choose doing what I'm doing because the svb's have a greater damaging effect. Maybe it's just my way of thinking???
My problem is is that I only have room for one small plant. I know I will probably never come close to a world record in just over 300 sqft, I just want to have something decent at the seasons end. I also know that the original poster 'eng' is also growing in a small patch and facing the same problems I am with svb's. It gets frustrating and I've almost quit because of it. Whether it works or not is unproven either way! But the thought that it 'may' help is plenty good for me. This year I only had to dig out 3 or 4 grubs compared to 30 or more in the past. Sure I can easily say it's because of the different pesticide I switched to this year, but in all honesty, the total number of moths seen/killed was WAAAYY down from previous years also.

Is it normal or does it ocassionaly happen that some year/s yeild ALOT less svb's for whatever reason?

10/20/2007 12:35:18 AM

Pataskala,OH

Jordan Rivington- where do yo get SVB pheremone traps?

10/20/2007 8:22:07 AM

Long Island,New York

I'm sure you are looking for other's opinions so please everyone post a reply and get me off the hot seat.
I live in an Italian/jewish/Irish nieghborhood where everyone has 60ft x 100 ft plots and a garden with zucchini. EVERYONE used to grow zucchini and tomatoes. Now , as more and more couples are forced to send the wife to work fulltime to pay the 9-10K in homeowner taxes per year the number of zucchinis grown has dropped drastically. So have the vine borer populations. Back when I started the answer wasn't there.....malathion was the best you could do and it wasn't very effective. Later, lamba c. (warriorT) became available for those with pesticides licences. So, 460 dollars later and 40hr class, plus 2 exams by DEC I had my licence and havent worried about SVB's since. I spray every 10-14 days max with occaisional intermediate sprays on new growth only (no tips) and apply admire (merit, grubbex) to the soil during active growth periods. I have not gotten an svb since 1999 until this year when I stopped spraying in early August at home. I had fresh svb damage on climbing vines in mid september this year on new growth that never got sprayed. I would suggest you have the svb but your defence is effective....but populations do go up and down just like ccb's.

10/20/2007 8:32:59 AM

Big Kahuna 25

Ontario, Canada.

Guys there is no really 100% correct answer. I can think of lots of reason why some might not till in the spring and why that same grower should change his approach. You can debate this fact until the cows come home.

Some factors you may want to consider are located in most IPM course materials they include.

Pesticide half-life:
Mobility in soil:
Solubility in water:

Rainfall:
Microbial activity:
Soil temperature:
Treatment surface:
Application rate:

10/20/2007 10:25:08 AM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Nic Nic:

I get them at Great Lakes IPM. They have a specific SVB trap kit...bucket trap and scent. I caught several this year. Note that the scent only attracks males which dont lay eggs....but it does let you know when they are active and spraying regimens must begin.

Kit is grape root and squash vine borer
http://www.greatlakesipm.com/kits.html

10/20/2007 10:46:55 AM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Just so you don't think I am just ignoring what you say LI, I do agree about the chem/pupae issue that was the original reason this post came up. That being said, this will be the last post on this subject from me. I know there is no point in saying this but I will anyhow. I am sure most who read this will say I shouldn't have said this either. What can I say, you bring out the worst in me.

I suppose there is simply no reading in between the lines with you. I don't think you really hate. I suppose a better thing to say was, why do you have to be a rude "know it all"? No one else is responding because they probably agree (though I make no claim to what anyone else thinks...just my opinion) and were taught to not say anything if its not nice.

Sav was taking advice from Pap....need I say more. NO ONE (not even you) knows everything, but I bet Pap knows more than you, or has at least been more successful, unless you did better than 1502 this year. Maybe next year should be PAP Vs. LIpumpkin....anyone else think that would be interesting? LOL.

I believe you said "taking advice from the posts these days from the new growers who have never grown a pumpkin before and think the know soil and all things pumpkin, then scratch your head in October while sucking on a high priced bottled water...........". Keep your water, we will stick with our beer.

Why do I let me self get pulled in....

10/20/2007 11:04:35 AM

North Shore Boyz

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Just do the smart thing and move over the mountains to British Columbia.....we don't have svbs or cuke beetles.

10/20/2007 1:06:30 PM