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That State Up North

Once again, it was an amazing turnout for the auction night, and I want to thank everyone for showing up to support the OVGPG. Thank you to everyone who placed a bid, and to our high bidders who have won seeds. I hope that you grow new personal bests.
Thank you to Ken and John and bigpumpkins.com for hosting this auction.
A big thank you to the OVGPG directors for gathering seeds, and making this possible.
Thanks to all the generous growers who donated seeds.
Thanks to everyone for all the participation, and anyone I forgot. It takes everyone to keep things going smoothly.
The OVGPG is grateful for all the support, and I hope to see as many of you at our Seminars, Summer Tour, and Weighoff.
To Join
the OVGPG
send $20 to
Alan Gibson c/o OVGPG
4576 SR 9
Salem, OH 44460

And in final matter, there has been some question as to bidding by the administrators, so I will address this for those who have been concerned. Both nicwelty and OVGPG are names that I use, and it helps to have two in the chat room when getting it all done. Bids placed are private, and anonymous proxy bids are made for those who requested them by me during the auction by the administration (me) under OVGPG. This is entirely anonymous, and I will say no more. Bids placed by me under nicwelty were seeds that I wanted, and purchased for myself. I hope this clears up any misunderstandings, and I apologize for any undue distress it caused the concerned community.

thanks to everyone for the interest and support of the OVGPG

Nic Welty

12/19/2005 8:06:11 AM

Maine

Thank you for clearing that up.

12/19/2005 8:29:44 AM

Ontario

I think you confused me even more Nic.

drew

12/19/2005 3:33:05 PM

Piqua,Ohio

not trying to stir the pot but I attend many auctions and feel if someone wants to buy something they should attend or set it up with someone who is attending to buy it for them not have the autioneer so to speak bid it off for them only looks bad for the auctioneer.. leaves room for doubt, If I am attending an auction and the auctioneer is bidding I am done bidding I know many others who feel the same. It may benefit the clubs not to allow secret bids or at least disclose what the bid is set at before the lot begins why should they have the opportunity to buy it cheaper than what they said they would go on it??? I mean after all it is suppose to benefit the clubs right. and if you want to be anonymous don't attend public auctions or have someone attending buy for you. I am sure nothing unethical was going on but it sure brought doubt among those who were in attendance. who knows those seeds may have brought more if people would not have thought that the seeds were being ran up by being bought back.

12/19/2005 7:58:14 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Well said Sam...IMHO (not worth much)...Proxy bids should be announced before bidding starts...!!! Why waste the time building up to a guaranteed bid? This type of auction activity opens up the door to speculation???... Enough for my .02. Really hoping for a better clarification...as Drew said..."I think you confused me even more Nic." Without concrete answers as to what happened, the speculations will grow. Hoping for conclusion. Peace, Wayne

12/19/2005 8:28:43 PM

New Carlisle IN

At the very least, proxys should be limited to one lot

12/19/2005 9:08:15 PM

Piqua,Ohio

I think Nic was concise as to what happened, not sure he could explain it any better... my concern is how ethical is it.. I know that from people I have talked with is that it left a bad taste in there mouth about the club and the ethics behind it. I think the intentions are good but I think there are better ways to buy seeds and remain anonymous without involving the host. I certianly don't have a problem with the auctioneer starting the bidding if he has trouble getting a bid.... but if you have a someone that is willing to pay x amount of dollars for the seed then that is the bid you should start with it is your job to take the highest bid not to do the bidding. again its about ethics, if that person wants to buy it as cheap as they can then they should be bidding themselves or have someone other thatn the host bidding for them this would allieviate all speculation. I mean after all anyone could be buying back for the club or any club no one would ever know so not sure it makes any difference.... but it really looks suspect when it is the host doing the bidding and leaves you, the club and everyone involved, associated open for speculation! I think it would serve the clubs better if this kind of thing wouldn't happen in the future. I will have to say it is not the first time it has happened I think it has happened at every auction that I have attended. But it seemed to me that this time it had more people a little disturbed as to what was really happening.

12/19/2005 9:48:13 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

We took a couple proxy bids for the CT GS&PGA auction. The bidder had to work & doesn't have access to a computer in the Emergency Room. His request came in tthe same day of the auction & since we couldn't modify our announcement in time we carefully considered then accepted his request. We decided that to be fair we would tell everyone about the Proxy bid before those lots got started. But bidders don't even wait for us to finish putting up the descriptions before the bids start flying. There is no way anyone can claim they should have been told when they bid before the auctioneer called for bids!?!?! Having looked over the transcript I know that once the descriptions had been posted we next announced the proxy bidder. But by then the bidding was half way to the finish!

I wouldn't get too upset with the auctioneer in this case.

For the record, all auction houses that take Proxy bids run them exactly the same way the CT GS&PGA and the OVGPG did it. eBay bidding work exactly the same way.

The exception would be a Dutch Auction which is most often used when multiple items are being offered at what might be considered a reserve price.

In this case I'm afraid it is the critics who are mistaken.

12/19/2005 10:17:02 PM

Piqua,Ohio

but my deal is if you want to bid and can't find someone to bid for you other than a host why not start the bidding at the price the proxy is willing to pay??? wouldn't that be the highest bid??

12/19/2005 11:03:42 PM

Indiana

The Ohio Valley club has many many older growers without internet access. Fred Calai himself is one of them. As far as I am concerned, its none of our business how the clubs get the funds, or if they want to only allow the seeds to go at a certain price.

As far as starting a bid at the price the proxy is willing to pay.....that would be unfair to them because there might not be anyone within 100 dollars of that price in the auction.

Peace,Wayne,
You have complained at every auction, about every auction, that I have seen. If you dont like it, dont bid or dont show up.

Tom Beachy

12/19/2005 11:26:21 PM

Okla

You know I have heard of Nic doing so much for not just his group, but many others. In my book Nic does NOT deserve what has been said. He did it openly and has done it as long as I have been around growing along with other members from other groups doing it also. These guys are also pumpkin growers and there are seeds they would like to have also, along with helping other growers who can not be there to bid themselves. He done it OPENLY, when if all they wanted was the seeds for themselves or someone else then all they had to do was just not list them. REMEMBER this one thing, the money from these Auctions go to help run the weighoffs and for the prizes(money)!! I just wished we had an oranization in our area and get the support that the ones you guys have in your areas have. Be thankful for what you already have and support it all you can! You could be like us southern growers and not have am organization with local weighoffs.
God Bless Each and Everyone of you and may you all have a Great Holiday Season, and MERRY CHRISTMAS
Thomas

12/19/2005 11:42:30 PM

Piqua,Ohio

point well taken! Actually wasn't thinkin about someone with no access but on the other hand Fred has many friends and I am sure someone other than the host could bid for him that is all I am saying I will atttend and bid again. I love the auctions and like watching them. I think they are great. I was just trying to relay some of the thoughts that were going through peoples head after the auction and it was more than just from people who posted here. Maybe they didn't post because they didn't want to make waves and that is not my intent either is just my opinion and it is what it is an opinion LOL

12/19/2005 11:50:02 PM

Hi All: I attend an busy auction house's weekly auctions & they have a proxy service. Though it is not the auctioneer who places the bids, it is an employee of the auction house, & this may partly be because it is a fast paced auction with many people in attendence & many proxy bids, so it would be hard for 1 person to handle both jobs!
There is no complaining about this practice & it is a popular service!! So I see what the OVGPG & CT GS&PGA did at their auctions as nothing unusual. The only suggestion that I have is to list it in the bidding format section, when your club 1st lists the seed lots prior to the auction.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL & HAPPY 2006 GROWING RESULTS

12/20/2005 2:04:58 AM

Claysburg , PA

I`ve sent in proxy bids to several groups already this year . I usually work 60- 70 hrs a week and get home at a time I consider late. I sometimes have to work Saturdays as well. The last thing I`m going to tell my wife and daughter is that I can`t go out on a Friday or Saturday night with them because I`m sitting at home to bid on a seed. thank you to the groups that do take proxy bids.

12/20/2005 6:32:50 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Tom, I have been to two auctions. At both of them I saw things going on that I didn't understand, so I asked questions, and learned because of asking those questions. If they came across as complaints, I will try and be more careful how I word questions in the future. Not all who frequent this site and the auctions have been around as long as you. Peace, Wayne

12/20/2005 7:28:31 AM

Ohio

Awwww come on Tom, Wayne isnt that bad, he just tries to help out on what he thinks the auctioneer misses because of the 100 mile an hour bids that blow by. Its good to have a person like Wayne at the auction to keep people on their toes, there is alot of money being spent dont forget.

Now you two hug each other and make up, and Tom, send Wayne a 1097 Beachy as a peace offering. LOL

12/20/2005 10:26:35 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

In the future the CT GS&PGA will write our Proxy Bid policy on the auction header prior to the start of our auction so no one takes offense to the practice. But we will NOT start the bidding at the proxy's highest bid offer since that is NOT fair to the Proxy bidder. The idea is for that person to participate fairly in the bidding even if absent. why should the proxy bidder pay more than he might otherwise have to?

I also see no reason why we can't asign a specific person to serve as the Proxy if having the auctioneer do it seems like a conflict of interest. That's a good idea.

I have another new idea that will help with all of these multiple seed lot offers. In 2006 I propose that we (CT GS&PGA) will NOT accept ANY bids until after we have CALLED for the bidding to begin. In other words, if bidding begins before the auctioneer has announced ALL of the terms of the lot being offered, then the early bids won't count at all. We had bids coming in even before the email announcements on the just closed lot had been posted.

For us this will be fairly easy since we always have two auctioneers & both have state of the art internet connections & computers.

One way or the other, sealed Proxy bidding is a fair & accepted practice that we will continue to offer. We just need to do a better job of communicating it before hand.

Personally I think Nic did as good as can be expected for a one armed paper hanger. I would NOT want to be the only person running a busy auction. Two is the minimum. But we have another 2 members just watching & recording the event with multiple phones open & connected just to keep the 2 of us honest & on track.

Thanks for listening!

Steve

12/20/2005 11:17:53 AM

Knopp, Germany

One armed paper hanger is good Steve, more like a man with one leg in a butt kicking contest.

I was not there, but if Nic pulled that off by himself my hat is off to him, job well done. His association should be very happy that they have a young man that can do two things at once, and the growers that bid, or sat by and watched as well.

owen

12/20/2005 12:18:28 PM

canal winchester ohio

I wasn't in at the Ohio Valley auction, but I've been in on others since I logged on this site in 2000 & Nic has always run those auctions very, very well.
.......Paul

12/20/2005 12:26:09 PM

Waquoit Mass

suggestion =if you are unable to attend a auction have someone bid for you. not the person running the auction ,even though its on the up and up it doesnt seem right .

12/20/2005 12:45:44 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Very, good Steve. This bid proxy policy should be adopted by all groups who host live auctions.

Russ L.

12/20/2005 12:48:18 PM

ENGLAND

Due to the big time differences between the USA, Canada & the UK i find it impossible to sit in on any Seed Auctions and as a result i have missed out on several Seeds that i was very interested in bidding for. I had thought of asking someone to bid on my behalf (Proxy Bidder) but i did not realise it was an accepted practice. All this being said i would have really been frustrated if the Seed lot had gone for just 5 or 10 bucks more than i had instructed my Proxy Bidder to go up to. I think it is always best to be there in person when bidding as one can then go that extra 5 or 10 bucks if neccessary.

I too did not realise Nic had ran the Auction on his own, that must have been one heck of a thing to think about doing let alone actually doing it.

Regards
Mike

12/20/2005 3:17:42 PM

That State Up North

Ok, I don't have time to read all of this, but skimmed it quickly. I will say a few quick things.
First, I am open to suggestions on better ways to run an internet auction, but I have been doing this for quite a few years, and we have had many happy pumpkin growers buy our seeds.
Second, I do apologize for any misunderstandings, or bad feelings that may have resulted.
By keeping proxy bidders anonymous, we are not attempting to create mystery. It is simply a service for those that don't wish to be hassled after, are buying Christmas gifts, couldn't attend, or have other personal reasons we should respect for wanting us to bid in proxy.
This is all about charity for the clubs, and I appreciate the generosity of everyone involved.
I believe it is only right that a club should offer the option to proxy bid, and place a bid for anyone on equal terms at the time of the auction. This is the least we can do for the many generous pumpkin growers who are helping to fund our hobby.
I see no conflict of interest in having the auctioneer make the proxy bids. It is a rather strait forward procedure, and anyone running an auction should be competent enough to do so. I do see how it can look confusing. In the future, I will adopt an additional, probably third screen name "proxy" and use that to place such bids. This should eliminate confusion.
Complete terms of proxy options will be stated in our general announcement in the future.
It may do well for other groups to use more than one person, but I do just fine under up to four screen names, running the auction, and making both electronic, and paper logs of the auction as it takes place.
thanks for the feedback, and once again thank you to everyone who has shown support to the OVGPG


The one legged man who will kick your butt

Nic Welty

12/20/2005 3:37:52 PM

Long Island,New York

So you're saying the OVGPG didn't buy any of those seeds or bid for those seeds????

12/20/2005 3:43:27 PM

Ontario

Its not much different then clubs having a reserve bid on a seed lot. If the reserve is not met the lot is not sold. Even if the Ohio group did buy the 846's back they did nothing wrong except have to hang on to the seeds for another year. The 846 is a great orange producer but for size there is better out there. A couple of years ago it was worth over 400 but not now, so I don't really know what all the fuss is about.

drew

12/20/2005 3:57:40 PM

Piqua,Ohio

Thats what the fuss is about even after all the explaining people still think the Ohio group bought back the seed and that is not the case LOL

12/20/2005 5:24:10 PM

Mastic Beach, New York

Is it winter yet! Nic i still think you did a great job!

12/20/2005 5:39:54 PM

Piqua,Ohio

Nic you did a great job!

12/20/2005 6:04:09 PM

Itzetown City

Nic, even the auction of Lot#1 take 40 minutes, YOU DA MAN!

12/20/2005 6:42:53 PM

Long Island,New York

Has lot#2 started yet?

12/20/2005 7:20:56 PM

Eugene,OR

I hate to say it, but it is nit-picky rants like this that make the people who put a lot of time and effort into putting together events like these NOT want to do them again in the future! People put on auctions and raffles for the fun of doing it and to raise some funds for their clubs. Now when Tom Beachy starts putting on big time seed auctions, being that he has mad the jump to the "pro" ranks, you should expect perfection. Until then, cut these guys some slack.

12/20/2005 9:50:02 PM

Eugene,OR

Sorry Tom, I just couldn't help but use you as my example. Since I did, I'll remind everyone that they can purchase a 1097.5 Beachy at www.beachyseeds.com for only $125. Not a bad price for one of the greatest producing seeds of all time!

12/20/2005 9:52:17 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

I received a very nice, and very complete answer to my questions from Mr. Welty. I hope no hard feelings were generated by my lack of knowledge on how things work, and my desire to learn. I think both of the auctions that I have witnessed were phenomenally well run, and "kudos" to all involved. Peace, Wayne

12/21/2005 7:16:11 AM

Waquoit Mass

nic even if you had 2 legs you couldnt kick beachys butt well maybe lol

12/21/2005 8:35:29 AM

Indiana

I'd run screaming like a little girl from Nic....anyone that capsizes a pumpkin boat in 40 degree water, and is not affected scares me.

Thanks for the plug Russ! LOL I just sent you something yesterday actually.

Tom

12/21/2005 5:17:06 PM