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I would think it an acceptable practice for clubs that make "proxy" bids for those that alledgedly can't be present for the auction to post the bidders name.

I know I was in a few auctions last year and the clubs did that,,but so far this auction season, it hasn't been the case.

It might restore trust in the fact that prices aren't being driven up or that "reserve prices" are set beforehand.

12/2/2006 10:51:24 PM

That State Up North

Ok, I am going to go on a rant about the proxy bidding. I am cranky from lack of sleep and too much time on the computer, so here it goes.

If you don't believe someone when they say something, then I believe there are deeper issues to address. Simple lack of trust seems to be a problem here. What you are saying is that you believe that when clubs are proxy bidding (and keeping the bidder anonymous), they are actually bidding without a proxy bidder and simply raising the prices.
If you do not believe the word of those running the pumpkin clubs across the world today, why would you be interested in buying their seeds (maybe you are buying zucchini seeds)?
Our simple world of pumpkin growing is deeply founded on a simple thing.
Trust
If we cannot trust one another to be working together for the greater good of our unique community of crazy pumpkin growers, it is going to become a sad sad world for us pumpkin growers.
Considering that proxy bidding is a system set up to accommodate those who wish to be generous and support a pumpkin club, I believe there is no reason not to extend simple courtesy to these generous people. If they wish to be anonymous lets give them that courtesy, if not, then it can be made known.


If you don't have the money for seeds at auctions (or the generosity to support organizations trying to further our hobby), don't buy them (spending it on soil prep will probably get you more weight at weighoff day). Over the years it seems unproven seeds have produced as many if not more world records than proven seeds...

enough for now

Nic Welty

12/2/2006 11:36:42 PM

Mulino, Oregon

Thank you Nic. Dan the proxy bids tonight were just that proxy bids. Some people couldn't be present but wanted an attempt at some particular seeds. There is no need for revealing their identity it doesn't matter. It is all on the up and up. We have to trust that the clubs are doing things in complete honesty.

12/2/2006 11:56:46 PM

Pemberton, BC

I agree with Nic, but.... if it's no big deal why can't the proxy bidder be revealed if the proxy bidder wins the lot? I do completly trust the organizations that sell these seeds, that's why I bid on them. On the other hand if these auctions are built on trust why should some bidders names be kept in confidence and not others?

Chad

12/3/2006 12:06:35 AM

I agree,, nice rant Nic,,

Just to clarify,,I do support the clubs. To this point I have donated close to 500 seeds from fairly significant fruit to the "cause" this first year. I also spend a little time and effort on soil prep (as my results prove) and yes, I have a soft spot for unprooven seeds as well. I have purchased seeds at auction as well.

I wasn't aware that "anonymous" supporters were out there ,,if indeed they are. Trust is a key element in this great hobby/sport I agree,,,so "why" the anonymity?

I must be missing something here or "mr deep pockets" would get every lot and be the sole sponser of whatever club they are supporting. The auction I just witnessed 20% of the first 18 lots were purchased by the "proxy bidder" if it truely is an "auction" then that is the chance that a club takes at putting "donated" seeds on the block.

Many bidders with a smaller pocket book for seed stock get shut down by the mystery bidder. In this particular auction there were multiple lots and in all but one instnce the proxy bidder took all of the lots.

That is my point, don't the growers on a budget get a chance at a proven seed if they bid on a multiple lot?

Maybe I need a copy of the "unwritten" rules here.

12/3/2006 12:10:14 AM

Our entrys crossed Jim,,,I'll leave it at that.

12/3/2006 12:14:24 AM

Eugene,OR

There was a proxy bidder on the final lot tonight (the 845 Bobier). I felt that the seed was worth more than it was going to sell for and I happen to think that the PGVG is a great club, so I made several bids against the "proxy" to raise the price...and therefore helped the club raise a little more money. I figured that if I out-bid the proxy and got "stuck" with the seed it wouldn't be the end of the world. Rather, I'd have the opportunity to grow one of the all-time greatest producting seeds next year. We should remember that seed auctions are FUNDRAISERS for the orginizations that put them on. The auctions are also a great opportunity to pick up some great seeds that you otherwise may not be able to obtain. Both the club and the individual buyers "win".

12/3/2006 12:56:23 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Proxy bids are a genuine service to those in need. We've had the same grower proxy bid at every single auction our club has ever held (three now) & he's won about half of his bids. Why? Because he trusts us & likes the seeds we offer. The CTGS&PGA auctions are always held on weeknights & this particular grower works nights.

The first year we had a club member bid for him just like any other auction participant. He won. So the proxy mailed the check & our club member never saw money or seed. But we discussed it later in Committee & decided that it might be in poor taste to have a board member bidding on our own auction...that would really look suspect if anyone had known he was a board member. So that's when we decided to start the whole proxy thing.

Last year some folks got bent because we didn't announce Proxy bidders prior to the auction so this year we spelled it all out well in advance.

The grower I'm thinking of has never requested anonymity. The subject has never even come up. The guy just isn't allowed to sit in a chatroom while his boss is paying him to work. We don't name him during the auction because the name doesn't matter...or it shouldn't anyway. During an auction I certainly don't have time to type someone elses name on the screen. It's really no one elses business anyway now that I think about it.

If it's worth mentioning at all...several new "screen names" turn up at every auction most of whom register the same day as the auction. They buy what they want & we never see that screen name again. Most never post a single thing here at BP at all (not that it matters - just curious)

12/3/2006 1:29:16 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Anonymity? I guess some people do want it but there are plenty of ways to get it. Look at all the free email server there are out there. Anyone can set up a special account to obtain a unique handle for auctions. Thats not what proxy bidding is for though.

That's it for my rant but I'm sticking to my guns on this too. Proxy bidding is a genuine service the clubs don't have to offer. But if the need ever arises, most folks appreciate knowing the clubs can be counted on to help them out.

Vine...I was really hoping you'd raise to $305....I'll bet the maximum bid was 300. LOL The 845 we sold last year only went for $280.

12/3/2006 1:29:22 AM

Utah (Wolfleym@aol.com)

One thing that probably should be defined... Final proxy bid was $295. Vineman's next bid would have been $300. Would he have won if the proxie's max bid was $300? From the auctionier's question about a tie, and the answer, it sounded like he would have.

I think that the proxie bid of $300 should actually count as the 'first' $300 bid and in this hypethetical situation I think it should then be declared that the proxie's final bid was $300 and would have first rights to that amount.

In Ebay if I bid $300 on an item and then someone else bids that same amount I would win that amount but the other bidders could tell that it was my max bid and that they would be highest with their next bid.

I stopped bidding at ~$280 my next bid (probably anyones) would have been $300 but I could kind of tell there would have been some controversy - on a $300 seed - who needs that? I am suprised it hasn't been an issue yet but it should be defined since proxie bids are so common.

Maybe it is and it just read it wrong. 'wouldn't be the first thing that went by me...

12/3/2006 3:18:51 AM

Utah (Wolfleym@aol.com)

Also, I have a couple off-line comments for you Nic prior to the OVGPG auction but the email button isn't working.

And I have a 922 Emmons for you if you are still looking.

My email is Wolfleym@aol.com.
Thanks

12/3/2006 3:43:24 AM

Dummer Twp - Ontario

It seems like some people are never satisfied in regards to how things are run. I sure hope some of these people are involved in clubs of their own so people can bash them for their hard work and volunteerism. Some people need to sit back and take a deep breath and remember that a good thing can easily get ruined and people will stop making their seeds available and then no one will have a chance. I can see why other clubs are going to the raffle style of fundraising now. Its much easier on the VOLUNTEERS!

12/3/2006 7:54:30 AM

Utah (Wolfleym@aol.com)

For the record, I am 'satisfied' my comments were not meant as a complaint.

My coments were meant to be a constructive part of the converstaion. Sorry if it came accross wrong.

12/3/2006 10:35:21 AM

maine USA

I am glad that clubs are willing to allow proxy bids. Since I work second shift, I usually miss the auctions. It is great to have someone bid on my behalf, so that I don't have to call in sick to work, just so that I can bid on the seed that I "need". Not everyone can be available at auction time. More people can participate in the auctions with Proxy bids. KathyT

12/3/2006 12:56:53 PM

Tenino, WA.

Proxy bid or not the bid is the bid. If I want a seed I will bid what I can afford. If the proxy bidder wins he / she wins. I respect the proxy bidders right to maintain their privacy if they so choose. I also understand that in many cases the auctio times do not meet everyones schedule. In my job the work is around the clock 24-7. We work the holidays as well. While most people were enjoying Thanksgiving with their families we had people on line loading ships. I am supposed to have the weekend off. I got a call at 10:00AM this morning that I may have to work this evening if that happens I will miss the auction. Also look at the time difference between the west coast, east coast and Europe. Proxy bids allow more growers the chance to get the seeds they want.

12/3/2006 2:26:21 PM

That State Up North

Brent

I will send you an email. Good point on the order of bids. Maybe take this as a tip to auctioneers, if you are proxy bidding, make sure you are going up on the 10's for your proxy person so that they can end at their maximum bid. Or, if you are getting close to the maximum, just jump up to it to make sure. You wouldn't want to bid $300 when current bidding is at $100, but over $250, it may be better just to jump up and make sure you give the proxy bidder a chance at their high bid amount.


Nic Welty

12/3/2006 2:43:21 PM

Long Island,New York

Lack of a email quick-link is sure saving Nic from a rant.

12/3/2006 5:55:29 PM

That State Up North

send all entertaining emails to

nicwelty@gmail.com

12/3/2006 6:39:37 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

The matter of a tie with the Proxy bidder is actually a very treal problem I've not yet had to deal with but we need a solution. The proxy bidder has written a bid at a time prior to the actual auction so obviously that bid is "first". But what does the auctioneer then say in response to the live bidder who matshes the proxy in a tie?
Saying "Proxy OUT" is not correct since the live bidder wins when really it is a tie.

IDEA:.Proxy always adds ONE DOLLAR to their bid so they are never at an even $5 increment. Hence there can be no tie.

Would this appease?

12/3/2006 10:20:11 PM

Cameron,ontario Team Lunatic

"All bids are in $5 increments". This is posted on all auctions I've attended. If it's getting close to the proxy's bid, why wouldn't the auctioneer just place the bid & be done with it. Just my 2-cents.

Phil

12/4/2006 6:55:32 AM

Lexington, Ky

I asked the question during the auction, "who wins if it's a tie?". The response was "first bid"....

So, which bid is considered first? The first bid to show on the screen or the bid that was phoned in two weeks ago?

So far, I have been please with the auctions, they have been fun....just too sssssssslow!

Jamie

12/4/2006 9:04:32 AM