From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Seattle, WA

Just got on the site and found all this information on compsot tea. Rather than go back and read all the posts I thought I'd start a new one.

A bit about me..I work for a company that sells compost tea brewers. My father is an Soil Food Web advisor and has been in the industry since 2002.

I'm not here to sell my products but rather to provide accurate information about compost tea.

I look at teas and compost under the microscope almost daily and am constantly reading to keep up on the latest information regarding compost teas.

If you have any questions about compost tea that I may be able to help out on, I'd love to be able to give input. We have a couple of giant pumpkin growers who already use our brewers (including a former world record holder).

I'm just excited that you guys are using this relatively new technology and are moving towards organic practice in your growing!

Cheers,
Tad

1/15/2008 8:31:11 PM

Pleasant Hill, Or

Hi Tad, Welcome! I'm sure I can speak for most here that we are very happy to have all of the expert advice possible on making teas. There is a lot of misinformation and pseudo information available, and it will be nice to be able to get more reliable information.
Compost teas are an emerging addition to our supplement program, and I bet their use is really going to take off in the next few years.
If you have noticed there was a recipe thread a while back. I'd like your opinion on some of them, and maybe any recipes from you that you think will work.
Could you recommend a compost tea friendly anti-foaming agent? I used to brew strictly "Soil Soup", but went to my own recipe/set up to lower costs. I believe I get an equal to or superior soup, but it foams like you would not believe! There has got to be something available that will counter act that.
Are you a member of the PGVG or PNWGPG clubs? We are having a spring meeting in Tacoma Wa April 5, and that would be a great time to meet PNW growers and answer alot of questions. I know I could keep you busy most of the day.

Thad Starr

1/16/2008 12:56:04 AM

Somerset,Ky

Tad,

Could you email me I have some Questions.

johnpvanhook@windstream.net

1/16/2008 7:38:10 AM

Wood River, IL (kennyw_49@yahoo.com)

Tad, welcome aboard! keep the info coming, good stuff.

Kenny

1/16/2008 7:49:22 AM

anytown U.S,A,

I would be interested in any info you could give me. Al

1/16/2008 10:21:31 AM

Seattle, WA

Thadd,

I'll have to go back and look at the recipes that are provided. The thing is, your recipe is really dependent on your brewer. Depending on the levels of aeration and dissolved oxygen in your brew, you'll want to adjust the amount of foods you provide for the organisms in the compost. Too little nutrients and you're not maximizing your output, too much nutrients and your brew could turn anaerobic in a matter of minutes.

~Tad

1/16/2008 2:57:26 PM

Seattle, WA

Here's a good starting point for information:
http://www.soilfoodweb.com/03_about_us/approach.html

1/16/2008 3:33:01 PM

President - GPC

Welcome Tad, I beleive I have spoken to you a few times.....Gary the Wiz.....Great to have you aboard....I beleive that the "Golden Brew" is the next frontier in growing our giants big......

1/17/2008 8:37:42 AM

Westford, MA

Tea and Cow Pies!!!
Now the pumpkins are smiling!!
WELOME aboard Tad.
Do you grow?
kevin

1/17/2008 11:33:52 AM

Seattle, WA

I don't grow personally, though I've talked and worked with a few different people who do.

Gary, I thought I recognized your email address as someone I've spoken with before on compost tea.

I'm most interested in the compost tea itself and all of its growing applications.

1/17/2008 12:51:26 PM

Mulino, Oregon

Tad, please contact me at fishroadfarm@canby.com. I would like to pick your brain on compost tea brewers and brewing.

thanks,

Jim Sherwood

1/17/2008 4:45:16 PM

Iowa

Tad,I would also like to pick your brain. Could you please contact me @ nvno.1@netzero.net
Thanks
Steve Krug

1/21/2008 11:21:18 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Jim, Steve, John, and especially Tad!!! There are lots of us out here who don't know what questions to ask to make our home-made CT brewers better...why not post yer questions, on this public forum? So's we can all learn a little bit??? Just a thought!!! Peace, Wayne

1/21/2008 6:10:17 PM

Seattle, WA

Wayne,

I'd love to offer whatever advice I can in regards to compost tea. Have you had a chance to look at the link I posted. That's probably the best online source of free info.

Another good starting point is Jeff Lowenfels book called "Teaming with Microbes." I think it's only $10 on amazon.com

With many of the homemade brewers, your recipe/inputs are going to be dependent on how much oxygen/aeration you're getting in the water.

Good luck!
~Tad

1/21/2008 6:48:58 PM

Mt Vernon Ky

why are the recipes a secret its like getting in to Fort Knox to get it out of anyone on here ?????

1/21/2008 9:24:41 PM

Iowa

Sorry Wayne how rude of me!! Ok here goes:I was just wondering if I was doing things right?? I fill a stocking with castings, dump some black strap in and hang it in 70gals.of warm water,from the bottom of the tank I pull it out with a 1 horse pump, it is sprayed back in to the top with a jet nozzle that is zip tied down. The tea bag spins around with big time force!!The brew gets really hot (temp wise)even steams like a hot cup of water, in about 4to5 hours it is a rootbeer float, foams out and onto the ground. Than I spray it out over the patch.A few times a had to get a friend to mix it up with a 2by4 while I sprayed it on. It was nice to be able to stand in one spot and spray out over my patch. The jet nozzle thing was $1.99 at walmart it really works great, if there is little wind that is...Just wondering if you think I was wasteing my time??

1/21/2008 11:31:22 PM

Santa Rosa, CA

Pumpkinhead Vic,

While this has turned into "Ask the expert questions privately," there are some good recipes on other posts under Compost Tea. There is also some very good information at Mainepumpkins.com under "Homemade Fish & Seaweed." I posted my recipe awhile back. If you can't find it, I can post it again. I hope this helps.

Chuck

1/21/2008 11:39:27 PM

Pleasant Hill, Or

Hey Pumpkinhead Vic, here is the recipe that I used this year with good success (you mileage may vary)!

4 cups black strap molasses (unsulfered feed grade)
4 cups worm castings
4 cups alfalfa pellets (used every other brew)
2 cups seaweed extract (maxicrop) alternated with the alfalfa

This was for a 28 gallon batch. Brew was warmed to 80 degrees with fish tank heater. Air pump was the 50 watt outdoor pump found here: http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/6575/cid/1793.

After using many different air diffusers, I found the most trouble free and reliable to be 25' of 3/4" soaker hose. Leave it rolled up and weight it to make it sink, find fittings to convert 1/4" air hose from pump to couple to 3/4" soaker hose.

I would pre-warm the water to 80 Degrees and add all ingredients. Brewed for about 24 hrs, then applied either/both foliar or fertigate at a rate of 5 gals/plant every other week.

I posted a brewer design by the OSU Extension here last year, but the thread was hijacked by a brewer design by Docgipe and forgotten. If you would like the design, email me and I will send it to you.

Thad

Question for Tad; Could you recommend a compost tea friendly anti-foaming agent? I used to brew strictly "Soil Soup", but went to my own recipe/set up to lower costs. I believe I get an equal to or superior soup, but it foams like you would not believe! There has got to be something available that will counter act that.

1/22/2008 12:50:52 AM

Seattle, WA

Starrfarms,

Couple of things. We're using a gallon of compost in our 28 gallon brewer. I attribute some of our success to the fact that we use 3 different composts, and we use more starting material. 4 cups of molasses sounds like a lot to me. We also use alfalfa meal. Haven't seen any data on the difference between pellets and meal, but my natural inclination is that there would be some biological differences based on the way they are processed. Are the pellets broken down by the end of the brewing cycle?

How big are the holes in your soaker hose? Make sure your bubbles aren't too fine, as they will hurt the fungi., and I would pull the whole apparatus out or drain the tank with the aerator still on to keep as much of the tea from getting inside your hose as possible. Biofilm buildup can become a serious issue. That's why I don't recommend air stones.

As for your brewer and design, it sounds like your brewer could be producing much better tea than the soil soup machine.

And the best way to get rid of unwanted foaming is regular old vegetable oil. I use a teaspoon and up to 1 T. in a 5 gallon brewer. So maybe start with 2-3 T. and see if that takes care of it. It won't hurt the biology in those amounts.

1/22/2008 3:45:10 PM

Seattle, WA

Pumpkinhead Vic,

Recipes can be proprietary, but I think the biggest issue with generic recipes is that your inputs should be based upon your brewer. You need to know how much aearation your brewer is putting out in order to determine how much food you can add for the brewer. Too much and the tea will go anaearobic, too little and you're not maximizing your tea's potential.

Basic Ingredients for a homemade brewer would be:
unsulfured blackstrap molasses
humic acid
alfalfa meal
liquid kelp
fish emulsion or hydrolysate
and more....

In our 5 gallon brewer we use:
1 heaping cup of compost (comprised of 3 different lab tested composts for maximum diversity.)

1/2 c. foods (ours are proprietary and come in a granular form, but contain things like feathermeal, bonemeal, mycorrhizae, etc....)

We also recommend adding 1 T. of our humic acid to our regular food kit for increased fungal growth.

I'd be happy to help you in coming up with good inputs if you tell us a bit more about your brewer.

~Tad

1/22/2008 3:50:12 PM

Seattle, WA

S. Krug,

The reason your tea is getting so hot is because the bacteria is growing so rapidly. You're going to be losing oxygen at very high rates with this kind of growth. I would cut back on your bacterial foods and possibly add air directly into the brewer, rather than relying on circulation. How does the final tea smell right before you apply it?

I'd also add some fungal foods into your recipe.

Make sure your nylong is at least 400 microns so the protozoa and fungi can escape. We put air directly into our mesh bag on our larger brewers, as this helps to strip the organisms off the organic matter and get them out into the tea.

~Tad

1/22/2008 4:02:12 PM

Iowa

Tad,
The tea to me smells kind of good..
Bacterial foods?? (Black strap?)
Fungal foods?? What do you suggest for food?
I think everything is getting out and into my tea, the bag just has sand and some matter that was not broke down yet left in it.Thats why I had to have a friend mix it up,otherwise the dark tea would come out at at once. By mixing it up when spraying the color was even. thanks for the info Thad.

1/22/2008 6:37:02 PM

President - GPC

Tad12 Send a email to TheWiz when you have an opportunity...

TheWizard@ColoradoPumpkins.com Thx

1/22/2008 6:43:11 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Mychorrhizae, in CT? New concept for me...I thought it had to be connected to the roots to survive!!! Nice!!! Peace, Wayne

1/22/2008 7:52:28 PM

Coupeville WA

Tad,
I don't mean to hijack the CT post, this is kind of related. It is in regard to the folic acid I bought from you last year.
My goal, currently, is to raise the CEC of my soil. I have been doing some reading, and from what I can tell, the best way to do this is to add humates to my soil.
Will the humic acid that I bought last year for my CT work for this? If so, what concentrations should I mix the powder to? Is this something that should be applied weekly, monthly etc...
Can this be over applied? and if so, will it have an affect to the soil ph?
Any info would be helpful.
Thanks,
Phil

1/22/2008 8:11:15 PM

Ontario

Tad,


When you say your brewer, do you mean your KIS brewer. I'm interested in buying one, would the posted recipe be good for your brewer kits? Also do we foiliar spray or soil drench? Also if we make a 5 gallon batch is putting it on two plants 1500 sq ft too much? How often do we apply. Could you please email me. I'm new to CT
apapez@sympatico.ca

Thank you drew

1/22/2008 9:24:11 PM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

Tad....Is foliar spraying the tea through a stihl mist blower harmful? If you can email me I would like to pick your brain....Thanks, Ray (rleonzi@sbcglobal.net)

1/22/2008 9:37:05 PM

Mt Vernon Ky

thanks everyone i use the soil soup system a 25 gal vic

1/22/2008 11:01:42 PM

Seattle, WA

Hands on,

Humates should work well for the situation you're describing. I have the application rates, but they're in the office so I'll have to get them next time I'm there.

Here's a link to more info. on humates also:
http://simplici-tea.com/articles.htm then click on "how humates work."

1/23/2008 2:47:39 PM

Seattle, WA

Drew,

I'll post a recipe from Dr. Ingham for a 5 gallon system over in the recipe thread that someone just started.

1/23/2008 2:48:21 PM

Seattle, WA

Wayne,

The mycorrhizae is not a big element in the tea. You're right that the fungus will not travel through the soil and therefore needs to be applied directly to the roots. I recommend adding it to the tea after brewing and then dipping the seeds or possibly using it when transplanting into soil.

1/23/2008 2:50:50 PM

Seattle, WA

Ray,

I don't know about the Stihl Mist Blower. The goal is to be as gentle on the organisms as possible, so that means low pressure, no 90 degree nozzle tips, not too fine of a mist, and no impeller pumps where you're sending the tea through anything that my damage the biology.

I don't mind answering questions on here, but if you want to email me personally, you can get a hold of me at tad@simplici-tea.com

~Tad

1/23/2008 2:53:09 PM

Cheshire,Ma

I think one of the most important aspects of compost tea brewing is the oxygen level. Testing the oxygen level (D.O.) is the only way to truely know what the level is. I test my oxygen level (D.O.) during the brew and it does change. Temerature can also effect the oxygen level.

Dan

1/23/2008 7:15:25 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Dan, how costly is an oxygen level testing device, and where might it be purchased? Thanks for all input and advice...Peace, Wayne

1/24/2008 11:25:35 AM

Seattle, WA

Dan,

I totally agree....If you can afford to get a DO meter, it will tell you a lot about your tea. It won't tell you what biology you have in the tea like a microscope, but it will help you to ensure that the organisms that are in your tea are aerobic.

Make sure you get readings over the entire brewing cycle. DO levels tend to drop from 8-16 hours and many people don't realize it because they only checked at the beginning and end of the brewing cycle.

1/24/2008 12:18:37 PM

Decatur, IL

Thad(Starr)could you send me your CT brewer design. Thanks, Charlie(triboutpop@msn.com)

1/24/2008 2:29:58 PM

Cheshire,Ma

Wayne, I would have to look up the price since the one I used is from work.It might be best to be able to borrow one for testing your brewer. Once you brew a few times and test the D.O. you may establish whether you are providing enough D.O. without having to test every time. Providing all the parameters are the same.I work at a wastewater treatment plant which in some aspects our aeration basin is giant compost tea brewer. Tad, when I did some testing on brewing I was checking the D.O. every hr while at work. Once the microrganism population started to grow quickly I did see the D.O levels chage. Fortunately I was able to maintain a high enough level of D.O.

1/24/2008 8:29:09 PM

Seattle, WA

We use an extech DO meter for testing our teas. That's good that you checked it frequently. I would even check it every 10 minutes (the meter can hook up to your computer and save the data for you). Your DO can actually fluctuate quite a bit in an hour, and the critical hours seem to be from about 7 hours to 15 hours as different microorganisms start to take off. You'll see the bacteria really get going around the 8 hour mark and DO levels can drop dramatically then.

1/25/2008 1:09:15 PM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

Tad ... Learning alot re: CT on this site. Question I have is the addition of Liquid Fish Plant Food With Kelp that has 2-5-0.2 NPK. Any thoughts about adding this in the initial recipe?, right before application? My concern is the affect the NPK might have on the brewing process. TY for any advice....John

1/30/2008 3:21:12 PM

silly you John,,,you should know that adding that stuff won't help a bit, toss it all out and plant some corn or something ;-)


(actually any of the "extras" I add after the brewing when I dilute for use)

1/30/2008 4:37:20 PM

Seattle, WA

John,

Typically, we don't look at NPK as much with compost tea or organics because we're more focused on the biology in the soil or tea. It does play a role, but what I've read on the subject shows that most of the nutrients get tied up in the bacteria, which are then eaten by flagellates and their waste products are released in a plant available form of nitrogen, etc...

The liquid fish with kelp should work as a food for the microbes in tea. When you say adding it to the initial recipe, what's your intial recipe? If you're purchasing a kit from a manufacturer, then I would add it after brewing, right before application so you're not effecting the recipe that the manufacturer has already tested.

Or you could use it as a separate application of micronutrients...

1/30/2008 4:51:47 PM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

Tad, thanks, wasn't sure if the nitrogen would kill the microbes.
Dan, I use whole fish in my corn :), but I think I'll experiment a little bit with the liquid fish/kelp.
I haven't determined a "recipe" yet so I'm investigating how to use some of the stuff I already have. Later

1/30/2008 5:06:04 PM