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Sparks, NV

I bought the Alaska Bountea setup but am confused is it an aerobic compost tea and if not what are some beginner mixes to start with I bought molasses and micro stuff for the soil and the contents of the kit itself.

Any help on this subject wold be appreciated

Thanks

-Doug

4/1/2008 3:06:27 AM

Seattle, WA

I would follow the instructions in the kit in regards to the recipe. It is intended to make an aerobic compost tea, I've never tested it, but it should work. You can always go back and ask them for some test results and details for optimal brewing.

4/1/2008 12:46:15 PM

Alaska

Add the compost forget the tea.

4/1/2008 1:08:49 PM

Seattle, WA

What do you mean "add the compost and forget the tea?"

4/1/2008 3:05:16 PM

Somerset Ky

he is a none believer tad. says compost tea is a waste of time. dont think he has ever grown a pumpkin though.

4/1/2008 5:40:22 PM

Sparks, NV

Thanks for the response. Im originally from Alaska Spudley so I know the power of their Alaskan Soil

4/1/2008 10:44:52 PM

Seattle, WA

Alaskan soil is wonderful, and much of the world record vegetables that John Evans (founder of Alaska Bountea)grows are in my opinion due to the fact that he was growing in such an excellent soil medium (not to mention your unique seasons in regards to sunlight and photosynthesis).

I wouldn't attribute those results soley to compost tea, though it may have been a part of the program. I believe it's really better used in conditions where the biology has been depeleted due to environmental conditions (usually by us through compaction, high nitrate chemical fertilizers, pesticides, etc...).

No one is disputing the benefits of compost or I would never claim that compost tea is the same thing or equal to compost. Both have different benefits in my opinion, as compost provides organic matter in addition to biology, essentially giving them a home to live in. However, it is not as portable or cost-efficient as compost tea.

Here's what can be accepted as scientfic fact in regards to properly made actively aerated compost tea:

1. It contains aerobic bacteria, fungi, and protozoa in exponentially higher concentrations than compost.

2. It is derived from a very small amount of compost in relation to the amount of tea that is made. For example, we use 3 gallons of compost in a 100 gallon brewer.

4/1/2008 11:03:32 PM

Seattle, WA

Alaskan soil is wonderful, and much of the world record vegetables that John Evans (founder of Alaska Bountea)grows are in my opinion due to the fact that he was growing in such an excellent soil medium (not to mention your unique seasons in regards to sunlight and photosynthesis).

I wouldn't attribute those results soley to compost tea, though it may have been a part of the program. I believe it's really better used in conditions where the biology has been depeleted due to environmental conditions (usually by us through compaction, high nitrate chemical fertilizers, pesticides, etc...).

No one is disputing the benefits of compost or I would never claim that compost tea is the same thing or equal to compost. Both have different benefits in my opinion, as compost provides organic matter in addition to biology, essentially giving them a home to live in. However, it is not as portable or cost-efficient as compost tea.

Here's what can be accepted as scientfic fact in regards to properly made actively aerated compost tea:

1. It contains aerobic bacteria, fungi, and protozoa in exponentially higher concentrations than compost.

2. It is derived from a very small amount of compost in relation to the amount of tea that is made. For example, we use 3 gallons of compost in a 100 gallon brewer.

4/1/2008 11:03:33 PM

Seattle, WA

Now I realize that some people believe that adding this biology has little to no effect on the plant or soil biology. I realize that Linda Chalker-Scott wrote an article a couple of years ago to this effect. When I went back and looked at the studies she reviewed, many if not all of them were not using proper testing methods or controls in their production of the compost tea. She has had a long standing academic debate with Dr. Ingham in regards to this. I know both can produce studies that support their side of the argument. There have been many studies as well as field tests that have shown biological amendments to have dramatic effects in suppressing and treating disease, and promoting plant health and growth. I've talked to numerous people who have had wonderful success with compost teas, and we've had great success in our garden. However, I know before I apply that the tea has all the beneficial organisms in good quantities. Many people who are non-believers that I've talked to pretty much just dropped some compost in a bucket, stirred it every couple of days, and applied it a week later. I don't think that approach would work either.

Anyway, this is just a long-winded way of saying try out the brewer (especially since you already have it), and see for yourself!

~Tad

4/1/2008 11:03:48 PM

Sparks, NV

I am definitely gonna be getting it setup. I am curious mostly to try it out and see what I get in terms of difference. I also have a compost pile this year to help out as well and other fertilizers that will I hope help as well as I havent done much fertilizing and other stuff last year I did do some but not as much as I should of by the end of the season the soil looked like toast.

4/1/2008 11:13:33 PM

Seattle, WA

You can always spray your compost pile with the tea to help speed up decomposition.

4/2/2008 12:51:10 PM

Puyallup, WA

Tad...I've found that there is no substitute for heat when it comes to decomposition! We had 28° this morning....that slows things down substantially!

4/2/2008 6:12:42 PM

Alaska

Tad what does ACT do for a soil that is void of nutrients? Can you grow a plant from seedling stage to maturity by adding just ACT? You need to build the soil up. How much good does a bucket full of microbes really do for a properly organically amended soil? What happens as soon as you add your brew to the soil. There's a massive die off. In that bucket you have pushed the numbers way beyond the normal levels needed in a properly maintained soil. There are more important and relevant things you can do to better your yield in the garden. If you are going to use pumpkins as your proof I have to say that the genetics and the availability of those good seeds have contributed to the fact that many first timers are able to grow 1000 pounders. IMHO later Scott.

4/2/2008 11:01:25 PM

Seattle, WA

Scott,

I have no doubt that genetics and good seeds play a HUGE role in beginners being able to grow giant pumpkins. I also agree that you need to build up the soil. I've said many times on here that compost tea is not a "magic bullet" or replacement for compost.

What does ACT do for a soil void of nutrients? Are you referring to completely sterile soil? Assuming that the habitat is suitable, you would be adding beneficial biology. What does it do for a properly organically amended soil? Well....probably not too much, I would use it more as a foliar application.

However, you listed two very extreme circumstances. I don't think most people have either of these two conditions in their backyard. That's where compost tea can be most beneficial.

How do you know there's massive die off? I've seen studies that show organism survival and many customers that do biological testing on their soils show huge increases soil biology from one season to the next with the use of compost tea. Are all the organisms going to survive in the soil? Probably not, but they don't need to. What will survive are the organisms that are most successful in feeding on the exudates released in the rhizosphere, which puts the plant in control and increases nutrient cycling.

That and the fact that I've seen photos of turf, vegetables, and trees that have all had tea applied in a side by side control and the tea made a huge visual difference.

Have you ever tried compost tea? Did you have a bad experience? Are you confident that the tea you used was good tea?

I hope we can keep this thread going!

~Tad

4/3/2008 1:35:40 AM

Alaska

Tad
One example would be in the greenhouse business where they use soiless mixes. Products like Pro-Mix or Sunshine Mixes. So how far would ACT go in sustaining plant life in those types of soil?
Yes I have tried Alaskan Humus and Alaska Bounty. As well as experimenting with my own brews. After several years of doing side by side testing with plenty of room between plants, I found nothing to get excited about. No improvements that warranted the time spent/money spent.
You can pour all the ACT onto a rock pile all ya want. It won't do any thing to improve the soil. Add as much compost to the patch as possible and forget the tea. IMHO,Scott.

4/3/2008 1:43:11 PM

President - GPC

Sorry, IMHO I'll side of use of quality compost tea. Hydroponics and soil-less mixtures and using compost tea are two completely different subjects. But, I bet you those growers using soil-less as a growth medium would also benefit a great deal from a foliar spray of the CT that Tad is speaking of. No we won’t pour it into the medium.....lol.

Yes we love the compost, but it must be quality compost, not just compost, good compost has the biology, the same biology we are mobilizing via the CT. After listening and talking to Dr. Linderman in Niagara and reading the soil web books among others, I'll place my bets on the PhD’s that have spent years studying and testing. IMHO Compost tea is the golden brew, understanding how to use it effectively and efficiently will be the key to hitting weights were no man or woman, has gone before.....

Add the compost and make quality compost tea......

Thanks Tad for helping us out with your knowledge and efforts.

Grow;em BIgger

4/3/2008 3:24:01 PM

Bristol,RI,USA.

Hey Spudly!
Compost tea helps me bring it all together opens up the soil for better exchange of nutrients, it helps my plants fight mildew and disease this is proven by my increased yield every year that I have used it !! And you are right it is not a fert!! But it is a key in my program to unlock the potential of my patch. My new personal best pumpkin is 1317 lbs and it went 2% light it taped 403 ott I say add the compost and pour on the tea new would record here we come !!!!!!!

CalCubit

4/3/2008 5:17:57 PM

Alaska

Guys I'm not disputing that there are billions of soil dwelling microbs in the soil and that there are folks who have spent a lifetime looking at them under a microscope. Dr Elain Engham said that only one tenth of one percent is known. The other 99.9 is not. Why then after all of those years of study and testing you refer to, isn't ACT more widely accepted in the AG business? Because to feed a hungry world AG products have to be effective and have a guaranteed analysis. There is no standard in the Soil Soup business. Just a bunch of folks brewing up a bunch of this and that. Far to many variables to guarantee anything. Foliar you say? Disease suppression you say? I'll bet ya that if the conditions are right and the plants you are growing are susceptible then it's going to get it, tea or no tea. No scientific peer review studies have show any different. No doubt it's a fascinating field but till more cause and effect can be determined then it's not for me. But you all have fun mixing and brewing and stewing. After awhile that's what I got more of a kick out of than the effects I hoped it would have had on yield. IMHO Scott.

4/3/2008 10:25:03 PM

Seattle, WA

Spudley,

Couple more points...

1. ACT will not turn a rock pile into soil, nor will it make sterile earth magically fertile overnight. I do belive it can improve soil quality and compaction over time though. And many hydroponic users do use teas. In fact, we've had some very good success in combating diseases using teas in hydroponic systems where the disease was airborn.

2. You're right too that we haven't identified 99.9% of the organisms in the soil and how they function. But that's exactly Dr. Ingham's point! That's why compost tea is so much more effective than adding specific microbes, because your soil and your plant needs that diversity! Our ancestors had never heard of bacteria and fungi, yet they gardened in ways that promoted their growth by tilling to increase bacterial dominance or using manures to add high N. Just because you don't understand a process completely doesn't mean it isn't occurring.

4/4/2008 12:13:00 AM

Seattle, WA

3. I have disease suppression assays from BBC labs that CLEARLY document suppression of a variety of different diseases over the control when using compost tea.

4. Why aren't there more studies, and why isn't it more widely accepted in the AG industry? Well, I don't think that has anything to do with the benefits or abilities of compost tea. I think it has a lot more to do with the politics of big business and the fact that they have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on studies to support the millions of dollars they're making in selling chemical fertilizers and other ~cides to us.

5. I completely agree with you that their is no standard in the industry and I find it very frustrating, as some companies don't do any testing of their products whatsoever, yet claim that they make compost tea. I think it hurts the industry that we're unable to establish good protocol and standards for the technology of making compost teas. There are variables, but they're controllable if you are using a microscope and know what you're doing.

4/4/2008 12:13:06 AM

Alaska

Yep I agree.

4/4/2008 1:00:12 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Tad, only one problem with yer statements...AG stands for Atlantic Giants (#4)!!! LOL Great thread, w/ lots of great info!!! Thanks Spudley, and Tad12!!! Peace, Wayne

4/4/2008 3:16:20 PM

Seattle, WA

Thanks Wayne! I've enjoyed the thread too! If you have wonderful soil, like it sounds like Spudley does, maybe compost tea isn't neccessary for his program. I enjoy talking about it though, and the fact we can all share opinions on here openly (I'm finding that's a rare commodity in many of these forums).

~Tad

4/4/2008 3:39:32 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Tad, I agree, this (bp.com) is one of a very few (maybe "ONLY") places, on the net, where ideas can be shared openly, and freely, and with a certain amount of humor, and in the end, we all seem to get along, and move along, towards the ultimate goal, of growing happy, healthy, and HUGE!!!!!!!!! Peace, Wayne
PS...Spudley, we all (or at least I do) appreciate your input!!!

4/4/2008 5:15:48 PM