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Hampstead, NC 28443

With the current WR being grown on a graphed plant, what is the stance of the growing community on this method?
Is it considered a credible entry?
Can we all grow watermelon on graphed stumps and they be considered as an official entry also? If we are going this route, I am fine with it personally. I just want to play by the same rules as everyone else. Thanks for your professional and respectful posts on this subject.

9/19/2012 10:14:38 PM

Muddy Waters

I doubt you will get a response on here from the GWG.You might LOL!As it stands now it is a legal way to grow."If it looks like melon It's a melon".I will be grafting next year,as will many others.It's not enforceable to exclude grafting as there is no way to prove where the melon came from.So I figure Go with the flow or stay on the porch.The GWG could make a ruling to exclude them,but I think it would get real messy & could really hurt the clubs image to do so.I hope they decline it making a move against grafting.Just my 2 cents after taking a good survey among the ranks of powers within the whole community.What we need to do is get the right seeds to all so it's a level playing field.I will do a lot of grafting this winter to help fight off Cabin fever.If anyone needs grafted plants in the spring I can help you out.There's also the Batcave for you southerners,Nathans a great guy I'm sure he can help you get plants.Good Luck! It's AWL GOOD!!

9/20/2012 6:10:22 AM

formerly RGG

LOL Kim, the posts on this subject have been far from professional and respectful. The bottom line is the practice will be allowed because, if for no other reasons, it is impossible to police it and the GPC is OK with grafting.

9/20/2012 9:32:54 AM

Manchester, TN

I personally will not grow grafted plants. If I can't keep up, I just won't be able to keep up. I know Guinness won't accept the grafted fruit as a record, so I guess I can still shoot for 292 with a natural plant.

The anyone can cheat philosophy doesn't fly with me.

9/20/2012 10:24:28 AM

Manchester, TN

Is the GPC ok with grafting pumpkins? Serious question, as I don't know.

9/20/2012 10:26:11 AM

El Paso TX.

As far as I know Yes the GPC is fine with grafted pumpkins -- though I doubt anyone would ever grow them (Since I do not know of any root stock that would provide a better root system than what the AG plants already have) and with them rooting at each node the way they do any grafting of the original vine would become pretty useless after awhile as AG plants can survive just fine without the stump due to the secondary rooting off of the vine as it grows so grafting would not really be useful. Watermelons on the other hand are mainly supported by the root system of the stump without much of a secondary root system so grafting can add to a stronger plant by providing a better root system to support the plant growth and hopefully providing better availability of nutrients for larger fruit growth.

Whether it should be allowed or not is debatable and I'm sure there will be more debate about it as more growers get involved in the practice but I figure it is just another option just like using various chemicals to enhance growth or control pests or growing inside a greenhouse to provide a better growing environment for the plant - no matter how you get to the results it still takes a lot of hard work and dedication to get that result so where should the line be drawn on what is or is not acceptable ?

9/20/2012 11:44:28 AM

formerly RGG

I know several growers who either had grafted plants this year or are looking into doing it for next year. Most of the grafted plant growers do so without talking about it. This includes current and past committee members. I wish I had kept my mouth shut as I have caught a lot of criticism while other graft growers have stood by the sidelines and simply observed.

9/20/2012 2:11:06 PM

formerly RGG

Jeb, what part of the "anyone can cheat philosophy" doesn't fly with you ? I know many people have ethics and you are one of them; but is it not true that, if a rule against grafted plants was adopted, a lot of growers would cheat ? You may say you don't think so. But from my personal experience with many inquires into the practice, I believe it would be done anyway. But we will never know because this practice is simply not going to be outlawed. As I have stated many times before a rule against this would simply not be enforceable. So why not allow it to develop and that way we will all stay on a level playing field ?

9/20/2012 2:19:16 PM

Muddy Waters

The giant pumpkin is not a pumpkin.It is a Gourd,pumpkin & sqaush.If men wouldn't have fooled with mother nature a little there would be no Giant pumpkins at all.So are you against Giant pumpkin growing?I dont want to debate just saying,there is nothing natural or original not monkied with about any of these giants we grow.If you want to keep everybody honest & let old school be old school.The GWG would have to have 2 classes one for grafted & 1 for non grafted.The only catch would be equal prize money for both classes this would stop cheaters.You couldn.t enter both classes only one class allowed.Just shooting ideas around,dont nobody get excited here.It's AWL good!

9/20/2012 6:17:44 PM

Garner, NC

I think as next season rolls around everyone will be happy, the board has some great idea's for the upcoming season. All the board members want the GWG to be a great club, and to keep all the members happy in the patch. So let's just give this debate a rest, enjoy what is left of this season, and get ready for 2013.

9/20/2012 8:38:27 PM

Corryton, TN

At this time I'm still not planning on growing grafted plants. Can and will some folks say it's now a proven method? Sure they will. I just happen to disagree. There are no controlled studies for the way we grow these thing. The science does not back it up, YET. Would or could the same seed have grown those melons as large without being grafted, we'll never know for sure. What would ungrafted seeds have done beside the others for him this year, assuming no serious disease issues. We are not privileged to all that he did to his patch or plants. There is no doubt in my mind that Mr Bartoli had more to do with his own success than just grafting seedlings.

With all that said grafting may very well be the way of the immediate future. Many of us will scramble to find any edge to set a personal best this year or even next. If it is a silver bullet, I "think" in the long term it will slow the genetic progress of weight gains. I'm not willing to give up what I see as the long term future for short term gains. I'm not sure that I agree with 2 classes for prize money especially if grafting proves to be advantageous. The so called cheaters, if there are some, can just say it wasn't grafted if they can't compete with the big boys/girls. I do think they should be noted as grafted or not. If you beat me with a grafted melon next year or in the future, let me be clear.....I'll be the first to say WELL DONE and shake your hand. All I want to do is beat my own PB and make new friends.

9/20/2012 8:44:57 PM

formerly RGG

Well said Dave. Here is one observation on what you had to say though. If grafting became predominant, then would not some seeds grow larger grafted melons than others ? I do think breeding would suffer some in the short term. But it seems to me that in the long run we would still be crossing our most promising melons in an effort to create superior genetics. Only time will tell what is actually going to happen. According to Sergio Moretti, the main problem Gabriele had was diseased soil ruining his plants and grafting solved that problem for him. I think many of us backyard growers such as myself have little opportunity to rotate our patches. I feel my ground is probably full of disease. If gourd roots are resistant to some of this disease, it will give me the opportunity to better compete with growers who are able to rotate their crops on a regular basis.I know Todd Dawson had a terrible year and I wonder if his soil has disease carried over from several years of growing in the same soil. My 228 was actually grown in brand new ground at the bottom of my lot. None of the melons I grew in my old patch did well this year. So who knows ?

9/20/2012 9:17:39 PM

sevierville, Tn

Its still all in the seed. Given the same level of skill & conditions, a good seed will beat a bad seed every time. A good normal grown seed will beat a poor seed grafted. We will still keep growing the best seeds & crossing them. Thats the only way to go!!! FWIW I think regular plants have the ability to get over 300 lbs. I know the 291 plant could have grown better if i knew then what i know now. Grafted is just another way to over come problems like soil diseases just like we use different sprays for disease.

9/21/2012 6:41:42 AM

Bethlehem CT

I grew a grafted plant this year. It was difficult for me to really compare it to the plants that were grown on their own roots, because my plants were not healthy. (This was due to the voles eating the roots of my melon plants.)
On apple trees the rootstocks are used to control much more than just imparting disease resistance The rootstock does affect many aspects of apple tree and fruit growth. It has it's positives and it's negatives for each different rootstock. The rootstock should be chosen carefully in order to meet your needs and goals.
Some of the things that rootstocks affect with apples are;
1. Tree size
2. The age the tree starts bearing.
3. Disease resistance
4. Cold hardiness
5. Fruit size!
I know we are comparing watermelons to apples here, but I don't think we can underestimate the potential of it. I guess what it comes down to is this, Can the potential in the Carolina Cross variety of melon be improved? Can we bring out any more root vigor,longevity, disease resistance etc. with selective breeding? If growers could find a better rootstock for 'Atlantic Giants' I am sure this issue would have been approached by now with them. I don't know of any cucurbits that have any where near the root growth and capability of the Cucurbita maxima ('Atlantic Giant') But with melons maybe there is room for improvement? Do the benefits outweigh the drawbacks?

9/21/2012 10:01:01 AM

sevierville, Tn

My grafted plant gave me the biggest nicest looking plant ever. I also got the smallest melon i have ever taken to a weighoff(191 lbs) So the plant size didn't give me a better melon. I did have a stump that was huge & filled with water so that may have limited the melon size just as a foaming stump hurts the AG's. Grafted may also give a lower amount of melons making it to the scales, just as many many AG's don't make it.
Does anyone know how many plants Gabriele Bartoli had grown in order to get 2 to the scales ?? Still lots of questions to be answered.

9/21/2012 1:25:26 PM

Valencia Spain

interesting

9/21/2012 3:13:08 PM

Hampstead, NC 28443

Thank you everyone for the intelligent answers that help us all consider all aspects of growing that help this hobby improve. Is it the best way? We may all be pioneers of a new way. We may also be proven history that the method is not the right way. Will it hurt to try? Probably not. May be a break through, may be a flop. Either way, it will prove a point.

9/24/2012 10:09:52 PM

Muddy Waters

Chris you also grew your graft on a driveway.most folks wouldnt of grew a 100 lb melon with a 239 leonard or a 255 Mitchell non grafted lol.Chris attempt does not count.lol

9/25/2012 5:53:24 AM