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Simi valley, ca

Somebody wants to buy my long gourds , SO they keep telling me they are called snake gourds, Is this correct ? I always called them long gourds ,I grew them from 126.5 (old) world record seed ! Is snake gourd also a correct name or not ? Thanks Glenn ?

6/18/2012 5:37:48 PM

President - GPC

Snake gourdZ is another name I have heard, if you let them grow on the ground they will curl like a snake. I tell folkZ they are African Long GourdZ....
Someone here I bet has the Latin name

Al Eaton....??

6/18/2012 5:47:20 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

I could be mistaken but the long gourds that we are growing are also known as Cocozielli Squash and are possibly from Italy. They are or related to cucurbita siceraria,lagenaria leucantha or lagenaria vulgaris. My 95 Seca's from 2000 are direct decendants,so I hope to self/sibb a few. If you Google Italian long gourd they are grown for eating.

6/18/2012 9:20:57 PM

eastern Ontario

Ca grower--great question,will get back to you on this shortly.Meanwhile there is alot of info via google.--AE

6/19/2012 6:49:32 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

I don't know if anyone knows the answer. Like Al's and my own last sentence, there is a lot of information on the net, most unverifiable. In my example, I can trace the 95 Seca back to Europe, maybe Italy or Serbia but I don't know.

6/19/2012 9:15:23 PM

Netherlands

Long gourds are members of the "Lagenaria siceraria" family. This is the bottle gourd family. Not all bottle gourds have bottles.

I would imagine that some crossing has taken place somewhere but that the original mother is the Sicilian long gourd.

They are not snake gourds. Snake gourds belong to the "Trichosanthes cucumerina" family. They have totally different flowers and will turn red during riping.

6/20/2012 4:08:46 AM

Simi valley, ca

Thanks for your responses ! Good info !

6/20/2012 3:37:18 PM

Hamburg, NY

Just noticed this thread - The proper variety name of the competition gourd is "Collins Long" GOURD. I developed it specifically for competition and set the world record of 99 inches in 1990 after three crosses and five selections over several years. The 3 crosses were - dipper, baseball and Italian Edible. Yes it is Lagenaria siceraria. Al - you know this and most of the giant pumpkin growing community also does. I kept it a "public" variety but would like credit for it's development and the proper name used. Good luck to all the growers. You may want to go to www.atlanticgiant.com

Ray Waterman

6/30/2012 10:11:57 PM

eastern Ontario

Fisssh--I hope to clarify the question you raised.I have lots of notes to refer to,having started making LG pedigrees in 2003 when I first tried growing them.

The new WR "135.94 Martin 11" comes from 3 generations of selfed LGs going back to the WR "126.5 Jutras 06".

Seeds in the 126.5 have genes from 3 sources,all separate and distinct genepools.I know about this because I got the seeds,made crosses with the help of a couple of local grower friends (Wallis and El-Kassis) and I kept good records.

The sources:
1."94 Corteso 06" --I met Mr.Corteso in Toronto at the huge
annual competition,liked the looks of his LG and traded seed with him.The 94 seed source was from Sicily.

2."91.5 Barlow 01"-this was John Barlow's Wisconsin state record,he tells me the genes go back to Ray Waterman.

3."83.9 Berenji 02" --I got these from Dr. Janos Berenji of Serbia,they were from the top LG in their annual national contest.

Will continue next message

7/7/2012 6:59:14 PM

eastern Ontario

Another way to see the ancestry of our modern LG genepool is to look at the pedigrees of the worlds top 20 official LGs of 2011.These are mainly GPC with a sprinkling from county fairs and from Europe.
Looks like about 95% (a guestimate) of the genes come from the 3 LGs already mentioned but there are a few others shown at least once,amounting to the remaining estimated 5%.

They are descendants of:
"95 Seca 00" and "95 Seca 04" --from Toronto-Sicily genepool
"95 Gipe 05" and "78 Roberts 03" -- from Waterman genepool.

All pedigree info I started was turned over several years ago to Bob Attaway,he and Alice have done a great job building the LG website to what it is today.

Check out www.longgourd-growers.com

7/7/2012 7:33:22 PM

eastern Ontario

Hope this makes the ancestory of our modern LGs a bit more clear.BTW the Italians in Toronto call them Sicilian Zucchinni and I believe that applies to the rest of Europe too.(comment Brad Wursten please).
As far as I know Ray Waterman called them Long Gourds and the name stuck,it is a good one.

These are all facts to the best of my belief and knowledge but I will be glad to correct and errors.

Hit 10 feet on 2 plants today---Cheers--AE

7/7/2012 7:43:31 PM

WNC Usa

So "long gourds" are actually hybrids of several different gourd varieties?

7/7/2012 7:56:43 PM

eastern Ontario

Andy H.--re your message of June 19.

95 Seca 00 -- 94 Seca 99 x self John Seca's seeds were brought to Toronto directly from Sicily,where the Sicilian Zucchini is used for food and has been probably for centurys.--Cheers--AE

7/7/2012 9:08:21 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Thanks Al for the explanation/history lesson. The 95 Seca is a wonderful plant, will definitely grow offspring ( x self-sibb ). A more trouble free plant you won't find.

PS- my early start has paid dividends. Three plants have surpassed the vertical climb and are now horizontal.

7/7/2012 10:03:54 PM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

Al, please contact me
cornhusk@mwt.net
thank-you,
JB

7/7/2012 11:24:34 PM

Netherlands

Al, our Italian LG growers call them `zucche siciliane` and to my knowledge this is a very old strain, certainly outdating anything that has ever been grown in America.
Then there is the Yugoslavian (Serbian) strain, but we don´t have any members from there in our club at the moment, though we do have a number of growers from other parts of what used to be Yugoslavia.

The pumpkin growers here call them long gourds, but the traditional growers seem to call them Sicilian zucchini.

7/9/2012 4:54:58 AM

eastern Ontario

Brad--interesting to see you mention the Yugoslavian-Serbian strain and I know the Sicilian strain is solid here now via the Toronto-Italians.From what I have seen over the years,these 2 strains along with the one developed by Mr Waterman,each have their own characteristics in shape and color.I perfer to call them 3 different genepools that have been brought together and maybe it is "hybrid vigor" we are seeing.Not sure thought if my words are "botanically" correct.

7/9/2012 6:15:01 PM

Netherlands

The original Sicilian variety is light green with white markings. But they tend to be thicker and shorter than the ones we grow now with that colouring.

7/10/2012 3:48:52 AM

Hamburg, NY

Al - "I perfer to call them 3 different genepools that have been brought together and maybe it is "hybrid vigor" we are seeing.Not sure thought if my words are "botanically" correct."

The "Collins" Long gourd is of three (3) gourd varieties. I crossed the "dipper" gourd with the "Italian" and "baseball" gourds. It was genetically developed for "hybrid vigor" and specifically for competition. Three crosses and five selection over a 3 year period to set the then World Record of 99 inches in 1990! Available at: http://www.pandpseed.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=pandpseed&Category_Code=GourdSS

8/10/2012 8:53:06 PM