Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Oak Grove, Mn

I have been concentrating this winter on the plants that I have that have formed a ribbon vine to the blossom. My thinking that the larger hose to the fruit has to help. Of those growers that have grown big...have your big ones had the ribbon to the blossom or not. Is it a trait that I should keep pursuing?

2/10/2017 5:42:12 PM

Marv.

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

When you are talking about a ribbon vine are you talking about a secondary vine bring fused to a main vine? Is there a picture of a ribbon vine somewhere?

2/10/2017 6:17:07 PM

Wixom MI.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=259461

Marv here is what was descibed as a ribon vine on a tomato plant and in this case the entire stem went into one flower.

2/10/2017 6:47:37 PM

Wixom MI.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=259732

This is the flower witch was the size of a baceball.check out my diary from june 17 through to Aug.(wixom grower) 2016

2/10/2017 6:58:20 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I just a diary entry to show what I mean.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=269267

Ever since watching wixoms diary last year, i have been interested in the possibilities.

2/10/2017 7:09:38 PM

Marv.

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Interesting. It looks to me that your flat vines are actually 2 or 3 vines fused together. Why they end in a huge blossom (many blossoms fused together) is a mystery to me. You may be onto something. Whatever you are doing, I would keep on doing it. Who knows what the next season will bring?

2/10/2017 7:35:46 PM

Wixom MI.

This was from my megazac cross and hope that this trait can pass along into the next generation but only time will tell.

2/10/2017 7:42:11 PM

Lafayette La

I took pics today of some of the beefsteak crosses I'm growing and will make a diary to show them. It might take me a while since I haven't posted pics here.

2/10/2017 7:59:39 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

the diary post that I just made was from the 3.77 Borgers 2015 which was wixom-slammer (domingo x big zac) x op. Chris...does the wixom slammer and the megazac share the same Big Zac component?

2/10/2017 8:11:59 PM

Lafayette La

I tried to figure out how to post but here's a link to photobucket http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/robnms/library/Ribbon%20vines

2/10/2017 8:12:32 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

It looks like you have a nice megablossom there Ragun, but it doesn't look like the ribbon goes all the way to the blossom. I would grow it out and see what you get. And nice to meet you...welcome to the BP tomato madness.

2/10/2017 8:22:48 PM

Lafayette La

Nice to meet everyone here. I joined last year but didn't have luck growing a monster. I grow a little of everything and do a few crosses for fun. I know Marv from Tville and also AkMark that was here. Those are his crosses in the pics but it's not for big tomatoes, just early beefsteaks he grows in Alaska. My small greenhouse is full already and I have another 36 varieties I'm trying this year including some of Chris's crosses from last year. I made a video of the greenhouse a few weeks ago because some friends were bugging me. I want to try to grow a monster in hydro if it's possible. Here's the video and take a look at the Brad's Black Heart plant when I comment on how thick the stems are and that at least 6" up the plant. I have 2 of those plants in hydro now, I need to check them for ribbon stems. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuPLVq9U2Iw&t=204s

2/10/2017 8:35:15 PM

Wixom MI.

No the megazac came from 5.51 megamarv x 8.41 macCoy bigzac
The slammer is the porkchop 7.05 bigzac x porkchop 5.75 domingo

Now the megazac and megadom share the 5.51 megamarv in them but they have different fathers.

The megazac and megadom have simmilar plants but the tomatoes were quite different. The megadom was much fuller and smother than the megazac and the mega zac picked up a little pinkish color from the bigzac

2/10/2017 8:41:40 PM

Lafayette La

^^^That is the info that needs to be recorded for future knowledge. Somewhere down the line somebody is gonna want to know all these things to make another cross.

2/10/2017 8:49:21 PM

Wixom MI.

Ragun you need to keep a diary this year.

2/10/2017 8:51:38 PM

Lafayette La

I tried to set one up and thought I had it but it didn't work. I'll try again.

2/10/2017 8:59:11 PM

Lafayette La

I went back and got a message that it needs to be approved. Did I do it wrong?

2/10/2017 9:01:33 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I will second the request for diary entries. I am glad to see another hydro grower here.I have a lot left to learn to how to tweak that for best results.

2/10/2017 9:08:42 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

if you are not a premium member the post needs to be approved before it appears. It is a safety measure. It usually only takes about a day for it to go thru.

2/10/2017 9:10:41 PM

Lafayette La

I just signed up for premium, I didn't look hard enough for all the options.

2/10/2017 9:30:20 PM

Wixom MI.

You have to pay $12 for the premium package the basic is free.

2/10/2017 9:33:57 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

this is a great site..i am glad to be able to support it with premium membership

2/10/2017 9:35:36 PM

Wixom MI.

The thing with basic is that a picture post may take a few hours to posibly a day before it is reviewed and posted. With premium it is instant

2/10/2017 9:41:03 PM

Lafayette La

I signed up but I'm sure it'll take a day to get everything straight. I'm good with supporting this site especially with Marv here.

2/10/2017 9:56:09 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I see your first diary entry has shown up Ragun. Can you grow year round there?

2/11/2017 8:34:32 AM

Lafayette La

Almost, July-early September is too hot for plants to pollinate and it depends on how cold of a winter we get but I do have 2 heaters in the greenhouse if I need them.

2/11/2017 9:38:43 AM

Lafayette La

I just posted a few more pics of a different plant I noticed that had what looked like 3 stalks fused. Can I have thoughts on this? Thanks.

2/11/2017 4:45:03 PM

Wixom MI.

No that is just a normal megabloom. Last year i had one unique tomato that was so massive that i could only decribe it as a ribon vine. I think that we need to be careful of not calling all big megablooms ribonvine. I think that i have only seen a few that i would call a ribon or flat vine. Garden rebel also had a nice one last year on his 7.05 porkchop bigzac that he called the kracken. Unfortunately i dont think that it ever made it?

2/11/2017 6:56:02 PM

Materdoc

Bloomington, IN USA

I have been observing the anatomy of blossom tresses and blossoms for some time.
What is unique to the giant varieties is their formation of what I call megatrusses, which I don't really have a definition for but it is an extremely large truss (Ihad 1 with 39 separate blooms) with several mega blooms.
I have seen a "ribbon " vine which is the continuation of the vine, with no other growing point, although the end of the ribbon vine can have a growing point.

2/12/2017 10:46:01 AM

Materdoc

Bloomington, IN USA

I think it would be interesting to form a list of varieties where we have seen true ribbon vines.
In the last 3 years I have seen a ribbon vine on a Delicious and was able to pollinate the megabloom although the plant had disease which resulted in that fruit not reaching the ultimate size that it could have.
I still start the seed from that fruit hoping to get another ribbon.
Last year I had a ribbon on a Zaczilla but I couldn't get the megabloom pollinated.
So what other varieties have people seen ribbon vines on?
Definitely Big Zac & I assume Domingo.
Chime in.

2/12/2017 11:01:12 AM

Wixom MI.

I think that any of the beefsteak varietys can grow a ribbon vine, but it will be interestig to see if we can make it a trait that can transfer over to each generation?
My original megazac cross did come from a small ribbon vine or flat vine to the flower, but i never expected to see its offspring the 6.23 ribbon vine megabloom to be so massive.so mabe this ribbon vine can become a normal trait ? Only time will tell if this ribbon vine effect has transfered over to the 6.23 megazac monster ?

2/12/2017 12:08:25 PM

Lafayette La

I've been growing many varieties and I notice the ribbon vine is almost a common trait on all of the bigger plants. By bigger I mean hearts and beefsteak varieties. I have a heart tomato now in the greenhouse and a new sucker has a ribbon vine. I just saw it yesterday and thought it was interesting considering this subject just came of.

Chris I don't think a megabloom has anything to do with a ribbon vine. What I would cll a ribbon vine is what Masterdoc mentioned "I have seen a "ribbon " vine which is the continuation of the vine, with no other growing point, although the end of the ribbon vine can have a growing point." I think that it's important to feed the tomato and also having a mega truss would be the same. Just a bigger stalk to feed the beast kinda thing.

2/12/2017 12:26:43 PM

Garden Rebel (Team Rebel Rousers)

Oak Grove, Mn

I like the idea of paying attention to the first blossom truss. I think i am going to start to take a picture of the various first blossom truss formation I get. So far I have seen ribbon to blossom on only purported delicious or big zac. Some exhibited the ribboning to a much higher level than the others. I do not have much experience growing the other varieties. I have been wondering if this tendency is caused environmentally or if it could be genetical bred to exhibit it more frequently. Something like plants being bred for the frequency of formation of megablossoms. With the seeds I have been working with megablossom is almost a sure thing...many 5-7 fused. I think I will continue to try to isolate the ribbon to blossom genetically..at least until i find something else to watch for.

2/13/2017 5:28:38 AM

Lebanon, Oregon

I think you on to something bnot. Last year my ribbon vines came from one 7.05 Porkchop and one Big Zac F7. I was only able to produce a tomato from the Big Zac F7. The ribbon from both of these came from the first truss off flowers from new growth after they had topped the plants, a sucker side shoot. For me the ribbon represents a cluster of flowers that didnt split up into the individual flowers and it occurs more with the first truss. The plant starts to organize itself better as the plant grows and more difficult to grow a ribbon after.

2/13/2017 9:16:58 AM

Wixom MI.

Ragun you are right about ribbon vines on a main trunk and that is common,and megablooms are common, but what we are trying to focus on is the rare occasion where the two merge together were you get a massive megabloom, where you get the whole main stem to turn into one massive megabloom. Where the truss has one massive flower and almost no other flowers on that truss.these are very uncommon (mutants)and we are just trying to see if we can make these mutants a genetic trait ???

2/13/2017 12:08:21 PM

Wixom MI.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=268804

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=259645

Here are two examples of what we mean with a ribon vine megabloom

2/13/2017 12:16:25 PM

Lafayette La

I see that in the 1st pic. It's massive! I'm not sure that's a trait you can breed for but we can try. How common is it and has all of the record tomatoes had a vine like that?

2/13/2017 3:59:51 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

We have to talk about this..on how to isolate it genetically if possible. That massive ribbon to blossom (rtb..is there a better abbreviation?) was on the plant that grew the 6.23. If i am counting correctly, that plant is f1 generation...all f1's should have the same gene mix as long as the original cross was f-high enough. So all megazac seeds should have that same potential if the 5.51 megamarv or the 8.41 MacCoy were not crosspollinated somewhere in the past ten years. F2 should start to show the genetic differences. I am growing an F2 right now..so far on this one it has shown reasonable blossoms, and about 1 out of 8 very, very slight rtb. Is there any chance of the massive rtb reappearing if i grow this F-2 (1.23) out to generation F-3.

2/13/2017 4:20:23 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I also have 3 different F-2 wixomslammers growing. Out of the 3, i am have one that is showing medium rtb. I think this one i definately should send to another generation. I also have Garden Rebels f-7 big zac that showed rtb traits just a few weeks old. Too bad he was not able to get seeds from the kracken. What do you think..should i plant the 1.23 to generation f-3 or should i plant another 6.23 for f2?

2/13/2017 4:24:41 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

My best rtb so far this winter was on a seed from the 8.41 MacCoy...unfortunately i lost that plant...one of the hazards of growing indoors before having the diffulties all figured out. I am thinking that the massive rtb from the megazac might be coming from the maccoy genetics.

2/13/2017 4:32:03 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

the rtb that i am seeing on one of the wixomslammer f2's might be coming from the 7.05 porkchop...since garden rebel also has a good rtb from that line

2/13/2017 4:36:41 PM

Wixom MI.

Ragun i don't know if any of the record tomatoes have come from a ribon vine type megabloom, but i think that your odds should be better than a standard megabloom but they are very hard to come by and difficult to pollinate. I wish that i would have taken pictures of my 6.13 megazac flower becouse i know it was a nice megabloom but nothing compaired to the 6.23 massive flower yet both megazac's finnished about the same size.so the question is, does size really mater ??? (0:

2/13/2017 6:47:04 PM

Wixom MI.

Bnot i think the only way we have a chance to make a ribbon vine a repetetive characteristic is to hope that other 6.23 megazac offspring can repeat this mutation and only collecting the seeds from tomatoes that do that. Maybe 1 in 10 seeds could repeat this or maybe 5 in 10 could repeat this or it may never happen again, no one knows, but if it does i think self pollinating it is the best way to go?

2/13/2017 7:12:32 PM