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Lima, Ohio

When do field pumpkins normally split and is there any tips to help keep them from splitting?

8/15/2018 6:38:29 PM

Ontario, Canada.

To prevent BES > Take a Trip Along the Calcium Highway - Maximum Yield
https://www.maximumyield.com/take-a-trip-along-the-calcium-highway/2/1173
Russ Landry | August 30, 2017 ... calcium moves within a soil solution around the root zone as it awaits transport up a plant's calcium highway – the xylem.

8/19/2018 7:07:22 PM

Western NY

I don't think it's a calcium issue with field pumpkins. There just seems to be something structurally different with them. Maybe a better focus on selective breeding is the long term answer, I don't know.

It just seems to me that if you have a plant and soil that's capable of 100#+ field pumpkins, you're probably running around a 50% BES rate. I know I've been doing worse than that the last couple years, and I think it's unacceptable.

I'd be interested in hearing from others to see what their normal loss rate is.

8/21/2018 7:55:08 PM

New York

In my limited experience with field pumpkins, I agree with Andy. It seems as soon as they begin to mature (turn orange) you figure it's smooth sailing with very limited future growth....and one morning you check and the blossom lets go. Kind of like blowing up a balloon that can take only so much air...that last small push is enough to let it go. Other than picking your best ones at day 40, regardless of how orange it is, I don't know.

8/21/2018 10:05:54 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

I have just as much trouble with stem splits. I lost a personal best 2 years ago; had a stem split that did not go into the cavity when I picked it. The next day at Pawnee City it had opened up. I don't see much difference between field and giant pumpkins.

8/22/2018 1:13:19 AM

Netherlands

I lose more than 50%. Any significant change in temperature or soil moisture seems to blow them up. Many of mine have blown around day 40 while turning orange. This year I'll be cutting the stem half way through around that time just to be sure.

8/22/2018 5:10:04 AM

New York

Interesting to hear about the stem splits. I haven't had that experience (yet). Mine have been the regular vertical blossom splits that suddenly appear around that magic day 40 and older.

8/22/2018 7:56:55 AM

Western NY

I've only had a couple stem splits on field pumpkins. I'm also wondering how much the density of the fruit has to do with it. Maybe AGs are more "soft and supple", and have a little more give to the structural integrity.

I don't grow marrows, but from what I've seen those things seem like split magnets too. I believe they are very similar to field pumpkins.

8/22/2018 9:09:35 AM

huntsburg,ohio

had my best one split this week blossom 100 lbs at 20 days old Jerry

8/23/2018 3:33:38 PM

Ontario, Canada.

We really need to assess each patch individually as all are different. The number 1 cause of BES is excessive canopy transpiration in the days leading up to the split. Others will be caused by micro nutrient tie up caused by competing soil cations that kick out micro's. Plus several others.

Jerry, that would have been a nice one, Wonder what was the CC and OTT for it. This might be where the battery acid comes in handy.

View from my easy chair is that its micro nutrient deficiencies cause by suberized roots.

Solution IMHO, regular micro nutrient drenches with high phos combined with a good root starter PGR like IBA also with the amino acid Glycine and or a quality Chealator Fulvic acid mixed at 5.5 pH. Lower the pH of the drench solutions ensures maximum availability.

8/25/2018 8:35:14 PM

Big Kahuna 17

How does this affect the growth of ag's as well as fp's. Looked up suberized and it says suberin is highly hydrophobic. Does your solution allow the roots to become hydrophile ?

Wiki -"Suberin is highly hydrophobic and a somewhat 'rubbery' material. In roots suberin is deposited in the radial and transverse cell walls of the endodermal cells. This structure, known as the Casparian strip or Casparian band, functions to prevent water and nutrients taken up by the root from entering the stele through the apoplast. Instead, water must bypass the endodermis via the symplast. This allows the plant to select the solutes that pass further into the plant. It thus forms an important barrier to harmful solutes."

8/26/2018 7:49:05 AM

Ontario, Canada.

So I do agree that FP’s could be more susceptible to BES. However it can be avoided with adequate nutrient uptake. Roots become suberized over time due to age and abiotic stress factors. Suberization is cumulative and not reversible. However growers can stimulate new adventurous root growth using PGR’s like IBA and NAA. There are plenty of such mixes out there to be had. As well FP fruit that have under gone stress events will also develop peduncle resistance which lowers the sinks strength. All this lowers fruit size and weights at the scale. FP’s are highly sensitive in part because of the shortened growth cycle. So 1 day under stress is worth two days or more to an AGP. In a lot ways they are harder to grow than AGP’s

8/26/2018 3:17:38 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Sorry Adventurous should have been adventitious.

Envinronmental Abiotic stress is fruit limiting in other ways as well. Etheylene production which controls all PGR’s triggers the senescence death spiral is greatly affected by all kinds of stressors. Including heat and drought which happened to be the two biggest factors that contribute to BES. While it’s true the title of my article is the “Calcium Highway” it’s really about ensuring a grower has maximum absorption of all micro nutrients into the roots and leaves. Along with this controlling run away canopy transpiration on hot calm low humidity days is key. Often fruit are left starved of nutrients as the plants moisture races out of the leaves stomata to compensate for evapotranspiration. One way to alleviate this is to keep pants Well watered. Another is to stimulate more adventitous roots for increased absorption.

However once the stage is set these factors are cumulative and very limiting to a developing fruit. Penduncle fruit resistance is not reversible. New young unsuberized roots tips maybe grown but often it’s far-too late to be effective. Split pumpkins smiling in your patch are not cool. They go hand in hand with under weight fruits as well. So, if you don’t want Mother Nature to protects its seeds by rushing the fruit into maturity you all better reduce all stress factors and delay senescence.

8/26/2018 3:50:13 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Back in the day we said bigger roots grow bigger fruits. Then foaming stump was at first thought to be a biotic cause. It was later discovered that excessive canopy transpiration, large plants and xylem cavitation where the cause. The correction is grow more thriving roots. Since the advent of myco about 10 years ago just that has happened. We don’t often see either as a large problem these days in AGP. So grow more roots fellas. FP’s require a bit more care when battling the weather extremes. Some times anti transpirants can be used effectively ahead of such weather events. I have used Relief in the past to reduce transpiration but this is a limited stop measure as in reduces photosynthesis and respiration. Calcarb or Lithovit May help as well but again these are not a cure they are a treatment only.

8/26/2018 4:07:53 PM

Guelph, Ontario

Most splits are a growth that exceeds the strength of the skin to accommodate it. The is , it can't stretch enough. Usually by a lot of rain after a hot dry spell. Root suberization is a developmental stage of root. Does not prevent intake of water and nutrients, a way to control it in more mature roots, and prevent internal damage from chemical imbalance. It is a change in function by maturity.

8/26/2018 4:21:31 PM

Thanks for the answers . Keep new roots coming.

Can stress cause early maturation in roots ?

8/26/2018 4:52:13 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Yes, Spudder. Cold temperatures and Saturated soils are a stresses that can cause premature suberization.

8/26/2018 4:59:10 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Change in function by maturity is correct. This change is however limiting. When growing competition fruits reducing adverse factors is critical.

8/26/2018 5:05:51 PM

Guelph, Ontario

Suberization is what happens in mature roots, that have stopped growing. What it does, is changes way water and minerals get into xylem in internal part of root. Basically protects minerals from leaving inside part of root I have a nice photo here on pg 88 of 'Plant Physiology' taken from Kramer and Boyle 1995 'Water Relations of Plants and Soil' What is especially nice is that this is pumpkin. I just can't see how it is relevant to stem or plant splitting. If less water flow, up the stem, would reduce splitting. It is only from excessive water stretching cells, faster then epidermis can expand, not from reduced water.

8/26/2018 9:21:29 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Terry, the traditional view of BES is looked as a one off event. When in fact BES is a series of events over time that culminate in a fruits smiling distal end. Suberization of roots is one component of the process. So suberin that Limits water uptake on high transpiration days is but one driver of the process. Having a good supply of young adventitious roots works wonders against this antagonist.

8/27/2018 7:58:32 AM

Western NY

Russ, I would argue that it's not necessarily a root issue in field pumpkins. I've seen way too many blossom ends start the splitting process at a relatively young age. Some of them you can see coming shortly after pollination. I've tried to see if it was associated with lobe number, but that didn't seem to matter. I have preemptively cut the blossom end nub off at day 3 or 4 to no avail.

If it is a root / nutrient issue, then we've bred (quickly, I might add, as we're probably only 10ish generations from store seed) them for size at the expense of roots. We're usually in the same soil the the AGs are grown in. Perhaps we made an unlucky cross back in the day that brought this on. My 81 was a great seed, but I've lost plenty on that one as well as those with (and also without) the 81 in the background.

I'd love to hear from the guys that grow a bunch of them to see what their loss numbers are - Treece, agteacher, anyone out there growing 5+ plants per year?

8/27/2018 8:32:09 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Andy, I agree with you about the breeding point however it’s one of simple epigeneticgenetic limitation which differs from a Physiological problem. Savage et al, described this in detail. Further Ehrat and Ho 1986 and 87 provided discoveries of pedicile resistance caused by uptake issues in annual vine crops. My belief based upon hundreds of research articles is that BES and BER is not directly caused by genetics. It’s rather there are a host of combinations that lead up to the point of BES.

There is interesting new work on sink source relationship that points to IBA being able to inhibit etheylene production. It’s exciting in that inhibition of ethylene can delay hydraulic resistance. Needless to say experiments are underway using IBA to promote both root growth and fruit sink strength and dominance at my patch’s. I recently begun a program of weekly fruit and peduncle topical sprays of IBA. Then again I’m not just your average moron. I’m an original Ontario Lunatic so I’m a moron on steroids.

8/27/2018 9:08:15 AM

Lloydminster/AB

I don’t think it’s a nutrient uptake. I just split that last one in a patch with nearly perfect balanced soil. It’s also temp regulated in the greenhouse. It’s all about fluid transport or temp causing a difference in growth rate throughout the fruit. I think we are growing fruit bigger than they have evolved for. Just like always we have to look for an outlier, that doesn’t split. I think I can split any of the lines I have grown. Though they tend not to during the warm part of the year. A clue I suppose.

8/27/2018 10:19:45 AM

10+ plants last year with over 20 pumpkins and might have lost 1or 2 to bes. I lost several to the weak spot that grows across the pumpkin. Usually very thin when you see that dent. Tried to keep them all covered .

8/27/2018 4:23:57 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Good debate

8/27/2018 6:13:23 PM

New York

Going along the lines Don pointed out, has anyone attempted to grow a competition FP along the same time as an AG? If climate change from summer to fall is a factor, is there any merit to growing a FP to maturity in early August, then holding on to it for 6 to 8 weeks on the vine? I suppose it's not practical, but no one enjoys losing their best one to splits. I'm talking in terms of competition and not retail/halloween.

8/27/2018 8:24:35 PM

North Pole,Alaska

My vote goes to genetics. I've tried two years and had splits both years growing aeroponically. The roots were very healthy, nutrients( including micros) were well balanced. PH correct. Root temps correct.Day and night ambient temps correct.They both happened as they were starting to turn orange. NO excessive canopy evaporation, as they both occurred during a stretch of cloudy, rainy weather. They were greenhouse grown, however, with controlled temps. Both pumpkins were relatively small too, as late starts forced early pollination on small plants.
Has anyone noticed signs of incomplete pollination? I've had similar results with Marrows splitting-split magnets as Andy W says. Every one that split had very uneven seed developement, which caused the uneven growth and eventual split. Irischap also makes a good point. Splitting is a release of built up pressure, regardless of cause. Suberization by itself would reduce the turgor pressure.

8/21/2019 10:27:18 PM

North Pole,Alaska

Also not sure what you are referring to when talking about adventitious roots.By definition, adventitious roots are "roots arising from tissue other than roots".Common on tomatoes, corn, tubers, or artificially propagated on stem or leaf cuttings. Rooting at leaf nodes are not adventitious roots. Nor are the complex branchings off of any existing root structure.

8/21/2019 10:37:48 PM

North Pole,Alaska

Traditional splitting usually involves enough water deprivation to allow for continue cell multiplication and cell growth ( expansion, but at a reduced rate while the cells organelles are still multiplying in anticipation of "rain") for an extended period of time, followed by "rain"- water availability , and an accelerated intake of water above and beyond what the cell walls can accommodate. Hence the old idea that plants "grow more after a heavy rain" .
I can't speak for others, but that has not been the case here. I think Brad's temperature change coupled with uneven seed development are most likely ( as well as uneven watering if you don't grow aeroponically :) ).
Does anyone know much about how localized seed development affects local growth? Or the timing of seed development/maturity in relation to turning orange?

8/21/2019 10:56:31 PM