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Brillion Wisconsin

Ever since I started growing AG's I have used Daconil. It has really worked well for me in controling powdery mildew and it kept my plants disease free. I have always sprayed the insides of the containers that I start my seedlings in and I also add some to the seed starting mixture. After transplant, I usually sprayed them every 10 to 20 days as adults.

This winter I purchased a product called Endomycorrhizal Fungi, it also contains 2 stains of Trichoderma. The directions say to mix it in with my seed starting mixture and into the area that I will be transplanting also.

Here are my questions, Do I discontinue the Daconil altogether? Would I risk killing the benifical fungi if I spray Daconil on the adult plant only? Should I start using another type of fungicide?

I'm thinking about going 100% organic this year but I'm not sure. I did receive some really promising seeds this winter and I want to have my "growing game plan" in place well before I start. Any help on this would be appreciated Thanks Dean o

2/10/2004 6:14:55 PM

Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

Good Question. I was going to do that as well and didn't even think about the daconil possibly killing the Endomycorrhizal Fungi. I hope someone can chime in with the answer.

2/10/2004 6:36:03 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

The stuff you bought covers and protects the root system, underground. Spraying foliar Daconil shouldn't be a problem unless you drench the soil with it.
I can't remember which, but either the ecto or endomycorrhizae is useless on cucurbita roots....some other veggies too. Someone chimed in last year with that info....do a Google search and you might find it.
Hope this helps.

2/10/2004 6:54:53 PM

Montoursville, PA

Dean-o I know where you are getting those instructions. There is one basic fact. The innoculation only happens once at one place and the plant is innoculated for the whole growing season. You need not waste product attempting to do it twice. I use about a tablespoon full shaken out of an old salt shaker onto the root ball at the time of transplanting. That gives you a pretty good coating. Remember only one small root needs to make contact to complete innoculation. This information comes from the maker of the product.

Your question.....Do not use fungicide in the ground or in the seed pot. Clean professional seed starting mix is in no need of additonal fungicide. Yes fungicide will nuke fungi.

Between using this product, foliar fish and kelp you may reduce the need for fungicide considerably. I also foliar spray AGRO-K product called Vigor Cal Phos Reports are up and running that it to helps hold off Milldew. I agree with these reports.

I say do all these good things and keep your eyes wide open for Milldew too. I have never quite made it 100% without a fungicide although last year I went fungicide free right up to the last three and a half weeks. For me that was a major step forward. When I use fungicide I get the spray as fine as possible and work very carefully to get the undersides of the leaves even better than the tops. Also trying to avoid run-off to ground. The higher your humus content is the less difficulty you should have with any disease..

2/10/2004 9:31:57 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

These are exciting times to do what I do. Sell fungicides (among other things). Yes, Daconil would likely destroy many beneficial fungi. So as Kyle said, don't drench nor even spray to heavy runoff. Like Dwaine said, beneficial fungi need only inoculate. Then they're going on their own until conditions favor their demise.

The cool thing is we're in the dawn of a new age of fungicides that are actual made from fungi (Strobilurins). Some of these will kill competing fungi more descriminatingly than others. Which ones? Beats me. It's too soon to know for sure. Trifloxystrobin (Compass & Flint) is a likely good guy but we can't be sure of that yet. Boscalid will be very selective. So selective it's only labeled for 2 major turfgrass diseases. So it might leave beneficials alone. Then fail to control a disease we should actually have been targeting. Catch 22.

The trouble is that farmers don't get paid to harvest beneficial soil fungi. So the big money isn't being spent on this sort of research. Yet.

But as we becoome more dependent on Strobilurins, more research will take place. It'll take some time though.

The down side to selectivity is the fact that we're losing the broad spectrum of control that end users like so much. No one wants to have a seperate fungicide for every disease they might encounter. Plus then they'd have to know how to identify & when to anticipate an outbreak far enough in advance to plan accordingly. That's too much like work for many fungicide users.

I'd recommend you get a hold of the new "Organosilicone surfactants" like our Hawkeye or Helena Chemical's Silwet77. These allow more precise targeting of the leaf & a complete coverage & spread without the need for a drenching spray that ends up mostly on the soil.

Steve

2/10/2004 11:15:53 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Boy I've got to proof read my posts when I'm tired. LOL

2/10/2004 11:23:11 PM

Western NY

here's a link i found in my bookmarks from a few years ago when i first started investigating mycos:

http://www.planthealthcare.com/feov.html

it shows which fungicides have effects on these particular fungi. apparently daconil is ok with VAM (the kind of fungi you are using), but daconil is meant as a foliar product, so you shouldn't be getting that much onto the soil in the first place.

i would take exception on docgipe's single application reccomendation. i think it's also a good idea to mix into the soil of the dirt you use to bury your vines with to encourage more vigorous rooting at the leaf nodes. plenty of time for colonization and growth, and it may help in the late season by the time things settle in.

Steve knows his stuff with these new line of fungicides. the stobilurin line has some amazing science behind it. the only downside is that certain products (Quadris off the top of my head) need to be rotated with a mankozeb (sp?)like maneb (or is it the other way around, it's late here) to avoid developing resistace to the product you're using.

i've never really used a fungicide (used daconil once, might try it again) only because by the time the mildew sets in, it's into september when the plants are slowing down anyway, so i really don't care that much by then.

2/10/2004 11:42:22 PM

Western NY

here's a link i found in my bookmarks from a few years ago when i first started investigating mycos:

http://www.planthealthcare.com/feov.html

it shows which fungicides have effects on these particular fungi. apparently daconil is ok with VAM (the kind of fungi you are using), but daconil is meant as a foliar product, so you shouldn't be getting that much onto the soil in the first place.

i would take exception on docgipe's single application reccomendation. i think it's also a good idea to mix into the soil of the dirt you use to bury your vines with to encourage more vigorous rooting at the leaf nodes. plenty of time for colonization and growth, and it may help in the late season by the time things settle in.

Steve knows his stuff with these new line of fungicides. the stobilurin line has some amazing science behind it. the only downside is that certain products (Quadris off the top of my head) need to be rotated with a mankozeb (sp?)like maneb (or is it the other way around, it's late here) to avoid developing resistace to the product you're using.

i've never really used a fungicide (used daconil once, might try it again) only because by the time the mildew sets in, it's into september when the plants are slowing down anyway, so i really don't care that much by then.

2/10/2004 11:44:00 PM

Western NY

stupid computer

2/10/2004 11:44:29 PM

Sheridan . NY

microbs - Agro-k products -your eyes --smeller--and a little common sence will help all thing your talking about above---

3/17/2004 9:36:18 PM

Atlanta, Georgia

I agree with docpipe on this one for certain!
The myco is adequate for the root system and foliar sprays with kelp have prevented any kind of rot or mildew on my plants so far but I have to spray pretty often and I use a surfactant whenever I can get it so that the seaweed sticks to the leaves. Even a teaspoon full of mild dish soap works wonders and doesn't harm anything to my knowlege.

Last year we had an early frost in my test patch and everything turned to mildew....ask Martin R....
My main patch and home patch were still growing healthy where I sprayed with fish/seaweed.

4/19/2004 2:51:47 AM