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Knopp, Germany

I am looking for an 898 Knauss. My initial impression was that an 1104.5 would be a fair trade. If I am wrong, I could be persuaded to add another vaulable seed to the trade.

What do you think is a fair trade?

Would you be willing to trade with me? All seeds I trade can be traced back to original grower.

thanks,
owen

12/22/2004 10:59:52 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

Owen,
I would like to post it publicly that I didn't intend to sabotage your original seed exchange request whatsoever and if it did then I apologize!

I would say that the 1104.5 and 898 Knauss is a pretty even trade although each seed has a different purpose as far as I can see.

The 1104.5 may be the best seed to produce huge, heavy, deformed and ugly....so far...

...and the 898 to produce very over the ott and thick walled offspring.

If I can swap for an 898 for you I will send it. I got one for a grower last year and that seed is not in my personal plans even though it's great.
Michel

12/22/2004 11:22:46 AM

Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

I'm willing to bet that after another year that would be perceived as an even trade, but since the 1104 has only been out for a year and was not heavily planted, and the 898 is a "famous" seed with alot of emotion attached to it, that it might be a hard trade to pull off this year, but I certainly don't want to discourage you from trying.

12/22/2004 11:45:55 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

Somebody please trade a 898 with Owen!
He is a great guy and deserves a shot at it as
much as anyone. I'll personally send 50 Euros to
see Owen get the seed he wants....and maybe some others
could chime in too.

It's high time that the growers in Germany stop being
so unwilling to be transparent and to help their fellow growers!

I agree with you Matt 100%

12/22/2004 1:07:02 PM

Western Pa.

I honestly don't think there are too many 898's out there anymore, emotion or not!

12/22/2004 8:56:08 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Not to be negative, and this is just my personal opinion, and since you asked for opinions....I think an 1104 for an 898 isn't an equal trade.
The 898 is way proven, and in the Top 3 of all-time for producing heavy OTC progeny (#1 and #3 by two seperate criteria).
The 1104 has produced a whopping 1420#, and then a 508#...and both right on the estimates. I'm not sold on the 1104 *yet* and think you gotta give a seed at least 6, preferably 10 or more, progeny before you can "rate" it. Time will tell.
Just my humble opinion Owen, I truly hope you find an 898!

12/22/2004 9:24:14 PM

Rocky-r@stny.rr.com

Owen, if it is the 898 X 845 cross you are looking for, my 751 is the same cross as the 1104. I have plenty of them, send me a sasbp and I will send you a pair. I am growing the 845 and 898 again this year, but will change up the cross and mix the 805 Pukos into it.

I will agree with Southern, the 1104 is not equal in value to the 898, due to what the 898 has proven, but give it 2 more years and lets check back and see. I know there are alot of people growing the 1104 this year. As for the 898, not many out there left, as was stated earlier.

12/22/2004 10:14:38 PM

Knopp, Germany

Well, I asked for answers and I got them. I appreciate and respect the replys.

Thanks Mike, Matt, Kilr, Kyle and Rock.

Rock, my intent was to use the 898 as a father for another 1104.5, 1180 and 1068. I will though take you up on your offer of seeds, very generous.

regards,
owen

12/23/2004 12:11:46 AM

Eugene,OR

I believe that a fair trade for an 898 might be an 842 Eaton, a 845 Bobier, or a 1260 Weir. I say might, because the person making the trade would have to share that opinion.

12/23/2004 1:15:43 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Russ is on track there, I'd agree with that assessment.
Owen, I have an extra 753 Pappas if you want it for pollinator genetics...over 30% heavy if I remember correctly?
Kyle

12/23/2004 6:04:53 AM

Knopp, Germany

Thanks for the insight Russ. How would the 582 Hester and 805 Pukos fit in this equation?

Kyle, I will let you know about the 753, I guess if I can't have the real McCoy, then one of his selfed offspring could work.

I guess that the 898 is turning in to my 2005 Holy Grail. Where's Monty Python whe you need him...LOL

12/23/2004 7:10:29 AM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

fighting the knights that say "neee!"....lol

12/23/2004 8:01:52 AM

Knopp, Germany

My favorite scene Tom:

GALAHAD:
There it is!
ARTHUR:
The Bridge of Death!
ROBIN:
Oh, great.
ARTHUR:
Look! There's the old man from scene twenty-four!
BEDEVERE:
What is he doing here?
ARTHUR:
He is the keeper of the Bridge of Death. He asks each traveller five questions--
GALAHAD:
Three questions.
ARTHUR:
Three questions. He who answers the five questions--
GALAHAD:
Three questions.
ARTHUR:
Three questions may cross in safety.
ROBIN:
What if you get a question wrong?
ARTHUR:
Then you are cast into the Gorge of Eternal Peril.

(Fast forwarding to the end of the scene)

BRIDGEKEEPER:
Hee hee heh. Stop! What... is your name?
ARTHUR:
It is 'Arthur', King of the Britons.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What... is your quest?
ARTHUR:
To seek the Holy Grail.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
ARTHUR:
What do you mean? An African or European swallow?
BRIDGEKEEPER:
Huh? I-- I don't know that. Auuuuuuuugh!
BEDEVERE:
How do know so much about swallows?
ARTHUR:
Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.

Any Monty Python fans out there gotta 898 they wanna trade?

12/23/2004 8:21:48 AM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

LOVE IT!, on the dvd that came out, they have the scene where they sing "we are the knights of the round table" flimed with Lego people doing the scene........too funny!

12/23/2004 9:06:38 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

Good Stuff, BF

12/23/2004 12:06:30 PM

Eugene,OR

Owen, I'd place the 805 Pukos a couple of notches below the seeds I listed above and the 582 Hester a couple of notches below the 805. However, the 582 is a great example of what being a "hot" seed means...last year the 582 was RED hot after producing the 1458 Whittier...this year it is selling for half what it did last year at the auctions after a year of "cooling" down. I believe that the 898 is the top seed because of its proven ability to prooduce crosses which will also do extermely well. Other than maybe the 935 Lloyd (which is basically gone now), there doesn't seem to be anything else out there that can match its ability to produce seeds which consistently grow big pumpkins. The 1260 Weir is similar but seems to have a problem with growing splitters. I believe that the 898 Knauss offspring will be the "new generation" equivalent of the 723 and 845 Bobier with the exception that there will be a whole lot more of them out there to grow.

12/23/2004 1:29:16 PM

Knopp, Germany

thanks, Russ.

12/23/2004 1:40:12 PM

Hayes, Virginia

Owen if by some wild chance i come across one it will be yours 4 sure.
also my favorite scene.
what a funny movie!!!
hope you get a 898 Owen.

Ed.

12/23/2004 4:01:47 PM

Indiana

There are a few 898 remakes out there. Try one of them. 508 Beauchemin, and a seed from John Wright? numbers are probably incorrect, but my experience with the remakes leads me to think that they are basically as good. Nobody plants them, but I think they are genetically viable.

Tom

12/23/2004 4:08:05 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Not a one of those remakes has a progeny listed at AGGC.

12/23/2004 5:09:18 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Unfortunately most people like to grow a "big name" seed.

12/23/2004 5:47:09 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

Don't see too many unknowns grown by the "Heavy Hitters"

12/23/2004 5:50:29 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Statistically the 805 is a notch above the 842 in it's average for top 5 progeny. The 805 also averages 7-8% heavy OTC for it's progeny, the 842 about 3-5%.
By AGGC stats, the 805 is ranked as the #4/5 seed of all seed in it's database, and the 842 is #5/6.
With numbers so close, it comes down to which seed produces offspring you find more appealing.
The 845 Bobier is ranked #2/3 out of all in the AGGC database for average progeny weight, and throws an average of 5-7% heavy for it's offspring.
The 1260 doesn't even come close to being in the same league for average weight against these other seed, as it's not even in the top 20 for that stat. BUT, the 1260 averages 12-14% heavy offspring. The only other seeds that are in that variance range are the 898 Knauss (10-15%), and the 730 Stellpflug '96 (14%+)...which hasn't been grown too much.
In 2004, I lost my 730 and 898 to a split, and rot. My 1260 freaked and had to have surgery to correct it, so it only gave me a small fruit as a very late pollination...but with those legendary heavy OTC genetics.
Guess which 3 seed I'm hopeful for growing again in 2005?
1260 x 898 x 1260
1260 x 730 x 1260
898 x 730 x 898
Sweet!

12/23/2004 6:16:32 PM

Rocky-r@stny.rr.com

With that topic being brought up, that would be quite interesting to see, if we could find a few heavy hitters to spare 400 sq ft to grow one. Take an unkown seed with the same cross, and plant it in their patches and see how they come out.

Any heavy hitters out there got space to try it?

12/23/2004 6:22:05 PM

Goffstown,nh

Rocky,
I posted a cross section photo of a fruit from my 503Beauchemin (898Knauss Remake) that I planted this summer. It's in the photo gallery under JimB. It was a late entry plant into my patch that shattered like glass on August 6th. It had no inner cavity. I'm not sure what would have happened if it kept growing? I believe it would have been my best cross ever though because I had pollinated it with the 898 again. Oh well, maybe next year...
Jim B

12/23/2004 8:09:08 PM

Eugene,OR

The 905 Ailts '04 is a 898 Knauss x 1260 Weir and the 1016 Ailts '04 is a 960 Larue (1337 Houghton x 898 Knauss) x 1260 Weir. Pretty hot stuff if you are a 898/1260 believer. I just got a bubble pack with these seeds in the mail yesterday!

12/23/2004 8:09:20 PM

Knopp, Germany

Ed, you got it.

Using a remake might just be the answer. Jim, you got mail.

owen

12/24/2004 3:29:14 AM