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Eastern Pennsylvania

This has come up in my quest for a 603 Muller seed. Is it wrong to offer money for a seed (outside of a club auction)?

That is, in this case, do you think Mark would be upset to find that someone else has profited from his seeds?

I don't want to offend anyone, but it's hard to persue your interests when you don't have much to trade. Thanks for any advice,
-Jim Gerhardt

12/20/2005 1:40:43 PM

Ft. Branch, IN (stevenson@sit-co.net)

It will be interesting to see the varying answers on this one

12/20/2005 3:00:23 PM

Spokane,WA

I will be second year grower this year and only have my own seeds. I have offered money to pretty much everyone I have asked seeds from. I have gotten a universal "no" and then they wish me luck. We have got a very giving community. I guess what I am saying is that most growers just want you to succeed for free.

12/20/2005 3:40:42 PM

Mocksville, NC

No I dont think offering money for seeds is wrong! If I give seeds to someone , and I have, I give it as a gift to do as they wish, someone offering to pay for it, is going to plant it! Someday I would like to see my name on a auction list. Rog

12/20/2005 3:44:02 PM

Mocksville, NC

also I have bought seeds, and got seed for free as long as i planted them. the ones I promised to plant, and got for free. The ones I promissed for personal use and got for free I keep my word, and plant myself, and dont give out.

12/20/2005 3:49:57 PM

Long Island,New York

After staring at this screen for a half hour the best answer I can come up with is "its un-cool, but excusable for a new grower to try". We were all new growers once...and got caught up in the hype of a coveted seed.Some people think asking for a free seed is akin to begging, and buying one keeps the new guy on even ground as a person with the veteran selling it.Some growers give out seed to grow...others to get your seeds, others say do whatever you want with them, so if you ask if Muller would be upset upon someone's profiting I say ask Muller..everyone is different.Some people would say selling a pkn you grew from a 603muller was profiting. Trading the seed for a better seed is profiting. Some people believe seeds sold between individuals before 2005 was illegal....so when it was done it was hush-hush....but it was done....but uncool. Some people say selling seeds commercializes a good hobby and starts it down that bumpy road.....but didn't Dill start the commercialization of the hobby? Waterman? Holland? Langevin? Beachy? Which of these 5 caught the most recent ridicule of the growers and why is he any different than maybe 3-4 of the others? We trade seeds for seeds and thats ok. We trade money for seeds to support the clubs and thats ok. Some trade seeds for insecticides and fungisides...is that ok? A puppy? How bout seeds for money to buy a backpack blower for the patch? Where do you draw the line?
There are people selling seeds all over the place this year...all that I've seen are under 25yrs old.(thats not to say there arent older ones selling or that people under 25 are the bane of society. Thats just what I see...you interpret it.)I would beware of anyone selling seeds.Do the research. my 2 cents.

12/20/2005 4:16:05 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Glenn, the thing is I have had a few offers now.. all for trade on the 603. It is the only proven seed I am seeking, and I have none currently that will appeal. It was my suggestion to buy. The grower and I, we discussed that it seemed odd to do a money deal. He would rather trade. I will show him what I've got, but I fear that will be the end of the road -Jim

12/20/2005 4:59:24 PM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

How about finding out what they want for a trade. Check upcoming auctions, bid/buy the seed they want and make the trade. This way you support the grower group, get the seed you want and every body is happy. I think. LOL. Hopefully you can find a suitable seed at an auction to make the deal.

12/20/2005 5:51:25 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

All I can say is MONEY and SEED TRADES...Can be a bad thing....Like G says Be Aware of anyone selling seeds...unless they are their own...Or a reputable seller like Howard Dill,0r Ray Waterman.

12/20/2005 6:15:38 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Never has Glenn used so many words to say so little or so much. This is the stickiest wicket there is. Glenn & Shannon are right. Just keep sending out bubbles. Great seeds will always be free. The only real difference between the most expensive seeds & the one's Glenn has produced is who has grown them.

12/20/2005 6:34:02 PM

Syracuse, NY

you need a "mental backup" seed, one you can think about other than the one you cannot seem to find.
603.5 is 845 Nesbitt X SELF. there are a couple other
seeds of that CROSS, but i did not see any progeny from THEM. if you also look for an actual 845 Nesbitt, i am sure they are around here somewhere, semi-available,
and the 689.5 Sandercock (869.5 Calai X SELF) was a great plant to grow for me in '05....that cross is really popular as well, and spanks-out the prettiest orange color i could ever ask for. if it is ORANGE you are looking for, step back and you will see them; if it is orange and BIGGGGGG, look no further than the 869.5 Calai; oops! pricey!
hey, look for a 935 Franek as well, i think that seed has a high average for orange,
and at least one offspring i know of, the 560.5 Matto from i think '03, was supremely orange from that seed and was indeed in the mid-500-pounds range....rambling, i know....EG

12/20/2005 6:36:17 PM

Greene R.I.

the more money involved, the greater the chance what you have in the bubble could be counterfeit.money can be the root of all evil?

12/20/2005 6:39:06 PM

Cincinnati,OH

Geeze Even a proxy bid at auction gets everyone flustered.
I remember the 670 Daigle selling 5 seeds for $6 on the Dill's premium seed list. Now that the seed is proven does everyone who bought them at that price have to fork over a hundred dollars to the Dills or should it be the Daigles for every seed they bought?
How about the 778 Steeves? exact same cross, same year, same list. 3 for 7$
Everyone who bought that seed, should they be refunded?
Or should Steeves sue Reiss for not growing that seed?

12/20/2005 7:09:57 PM

Streator ,Illinois

orangeneck
I just recieved my package from the SNSPG 11 great seeds
you can have 1 or 2 of them it don't matter to me if this can help you out in a trade with who ever will trade a 603 muller to you. let me know at mcmullen.s@mchsi.com
Good luck
Gene

12/20/2005 7:15:17 PM

Streator ,Illinois

Make that the SNGPG

12/20/2005 7:20:14 PM

Waquoit Mass

it would have been a sin ten years ago now anything goes unfortunately

12/21/2005 8:29:32 AM

Eastern Pennsylvania

the 603 is my mental backup seed. That is, to feel secure in a patch full of unprovens to have just that one where I can "reasonably" predict the outcome.

I believe I will be able to obtain a 603 now from a very helpful grower.

The reason I brought this topic up, though, was just to get familiar with the process of getting what you want, though. It had little to do with the 603 itself.

I want to respect everyone in this community and earn their respect in return.

Maybe this topic will help other new people like me figure out how to fit in and not cross any unspoken boundries.

12/21/2005 10:59:19 AM

South Western Pa

In 2003 I donated almost all my 603 seeds to the Ohio Valley Giant Pumpkin Growers who sold all of them for I think $10 for 2 to raise money for the club. I don’t see anything wrong with someone who paid the $10 in 2003 asking for that for the seed.

And obviously since the AG patent has expired I see nothing wrong with selling your own seeds.

However when it comes to selling seeds that were swapped or a gift from another grower, I know it’s legal, but I it still rubs me the wrong way.

Just my 2 cents.


Mark Muller

12/21/2005 12:24:23 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Well said Mark...

12/21/2005 1:17:35 PM

Utah

my thinking ...

Glenn and others provided you with the answer to your specific question.

but I also agree with along the lines of Pal2 was saying. not everybody can get the seed they want. Especially if they are a newer grower. So you do with what you have... with what you can get. If you want orange then there are lots of other great choices. If you want ____ (whatever) then there are lots of great choices.
Look in peoples Diaries, study the crosses, see what you like and ask them for some seeds. Most will be willing to give them to you for a SASBP.
BP has made it really easy to get great seeds from all over the place. For new growers is easier now that it has ever been. Just a few years ago new growers seeds choices were pretty much limited to other growers in their area that they met at the weigh off.
Except for a small few, every HOT seed today was at one time - free for the asking you just had to ask ... and maybe send a SASBP.
You have to start somewhere.

12/21/2005 1:29:31 PM

Ohio

There is no possable way I could have grown most of my seeds this year unless I had money to buy them from a auction,or a grower.(TO MY WIFE CASSIE:THIS IS JUST A EXAMPLE,I NEVER BOUGHT NOT ONE SEED)

Who wants to trade a 898 knauss, or 723 Bobier, or 1260 Weir ect.. to a grower that spent the winter sending out bubble packs to get seeds off first or 2nd year growers that these people never heard of before? It was hard my first year too, trying to get seeds from the HeavyHitters because they dont frequent this site that often. It was hard trying to get big named growers emails from other growers for out of respect for that HH.
So I think you have to have some years in getting to know all the great growers before you can expect to get great seed. So I agree its hard and still is to get some great seed to grow with no trade, or with what little unproven seed you collected your first couple years.
I think new growers like myself need to put our time in to send bubbles or just buy the seed you want if you cant trade for it. And if you cant afford it there is a million seeds out there to try for free. Just my 2 cents.

Brooks

12/22/2005 5:40:57 PM

Nashville, TN

My thoughts - as a new grower myself.... I'd personally accept just enough money - to purchase another pack of SASBE.. About $5-7 I'd say....

My first year I purchase commercial Atlantic Giant seeds - then had TONS of free seeds sent to me by all sorts of growers. Just don't be picky - and you'll get plenty of free ones to experiment with.. And if one happens to do very well in your patch - you might have seeds that EVERYONE wants to trade for!!

12/24/2005 12:30:15 PM