From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Utah, brysterz11@hotmail.com

i am hopping you are on the giving side but i do have some seeds to trade for the 1233.5 Reiss 2005
thanks
Bryson Ensign

3/25/2006 11:09:02 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Bryson, you might have more luck with this post in a week or two. Most people are waiting for their seeds to arrive after a long trip from Germany to Canada to the USA.
Jim

3/26/2006 12:02:16 PM

Massachusetts

Does anyone out there have a picture of this pumpkin at the scales? Steve

3/26/2006 6:27:38 PM

Massachusettts

Steve -

I was looking for the same photo recently. That shouldn't be difficult to find, being the heaviest pumpkin ever grown in Germany.

3/26/2006 10:36:11 PM

Eugene,OR

Try this for a pic of the 1233.5 being weighed. It is from Martin's diary. http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=42913

3/26/2006 10:46:23 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

No he means a real picture not a photoshopped one. Biggest pumpkin ever grown in Europe you would think there would be atleast one picture?

3/26/2006 11:32:44 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Being the biggest pumpkin ever grown in Germany, you would think there would be all sort of pictures. Meaning, many pictures with the grower by the scales and several people around the scales as well to witness the weight. Look at the pictures Bruce Whittier had in 2003 at his home when he grew the 1458. Mr. Reiss had pictures of the pumpkin and him in the patch. So why not any of him and the pumpkin on the scales?

3/27/2006 1:21:50 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

The German weighoff in Ludwigsburg was on October 2, 2005. mr. Reiss had a 1008.4 that won first place. But on his diary on his 1233.5 was September 5th. why didn't he wait and take the 1233.5 to Ludwigsburg knowing by the tape measurements it was much bigger then the 1008.4? Plus there are lots of photo's at the Ludwigsburg weigh off with his 1008.4 but none of the 1233.5 with a group of people around.

3/27/2006 1:37:08 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

the pictures in question were lost due to a card error. after my inquiry at a few specialist companies offering data recovery I decided it was too costly and not worth it. check earlier posts for further details, all has been discussed before.

3/27/2006 3:08:23 AM

surely someone else must have snapped a photo of that monster..I'd love to see a photo of it out of the garden

3/27/2006 5:55:11 AM

It would be a shame to lose all those once in a lifetime images Martin. Have you looked here >>

http://www.datarecovery.net/submit_media.html
http://www.flashguardian.com/charges.php

You should be able to recover those images for under $100.

3/27/2006 7:50:39 AM

No Place Special

Heck bud i bet a few people would be willing to help you out with some $ to get those pics back! I know your prob like the typical school guy just trying to get by with the little $ you have. School can be some very tough times... iremember for sure...LOL. You need some donations to help with your photo recovery efforts and im sure many would gladly help you out, count me in for sure. The 1233 deserves it!!!! YEEEE YAAAA. Cant wait to get my 1233 in the ground. Its soon to be one of the most famous seeds ever I bet. Take care Martin!

3/27/2006 2:01:18 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

If it was me, I would check with all the other growers who where at the weigh-off that the 1233.4 was at. There has to be other growers or non growers there who have to have some photo's.Family and friends as well. Even the local news or newspaper would have photo's.... Even with a article in the local newspaper, you can scan the story to your computer, then post it in your dairy and let everyone see it....

3/27/2006 4:41:11 PM

Massachusetts

such a monumental pumpkin ....... surely someone was present ( friend... family... media...) with a camera other than yours. Thats to bad..... opens the door.....

3/27/2006 5:08:16 PM

Napa Valley, CA

I like Mike's idea and will donate $50 to the photo recovery fund.

Vineman posted a link to a photo of the 1233.5 on this thread.
Linus Van Pelt (Shannon) has indicated that this photo of the pumpkin on the scale is "photoshopped".

Having looked at the photo I cannot tell if this is so, as I have no expertise in this area.

Martin, is this a "photoshopped" photo ??
Your post said this subject has been discussed before.
Bud, my computer skills are limited thus I could not find the thread.

3/27/2006 10:35:36 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I like to play with clip art. I enjoy making different things from clip art and photo's. I just made up several new Logo's for the NYSGPGA for Cooperstown. Which have been sent to Cooperstown Chamber of Commerce and to the President of the NYSGPGA. If you look in Mr.Orange's dairy, he posted fifteen different photo's during the couse of the day on September 15th from the so called 1233.5. All of them from in the patch until he looked at the bottom of the pumpkin after it was weighed. If he had all of these photo's where are the rest of the pictures in between? Plus if he had a photo of the bottom of it just after it was weighed, he them would have some of it at the weigh off. I also took the photo and left clicked on it and downloaded it to my computer of the pumpkin on the so called scales he had in his dairy.I took the photo and put it on a program on my computer and blew it up 800%. The flaw I find in the photo is a block of four gray pixels above the R. in the name Reiss. Which are on the pumpkin. If this was a real photo of the pumpkin on a scales, there is no way you would find four gray pixels on any part of the pumpkin. Pixels are what make a Digital photo. To the different growers who have asked me about this picture of the 1233.5 on the scales and what I have done playing around with pixels and photo;s along with clip art, I would have to say this photo of the 1233.5 on the scales is by all means a FAKE.

3/28/2006 12:07:04 AM

Knopp, Germany

I am not going to defend Martin or his pictures that is his business. He has already posted that some of them were digitally altered because he lost all of his others due to a card failure, so your expertise in determining what he already said is not news.

I am going to say that some of you are making this pretty personal, almost like you feel that you were personally cheated. That is a shame, I can only imagine how you are making Martin feel.

Do you think his 1233.5 was a fake? Good, then send me your 1233.5 seeds, I sure would not want you to plant any fake seeds, I will do it for you.

owen

3/28/2006 12:49:15 AM

Netherlands

For all those wondering why there are no pictures taken at a weighoff (PumpkinBrat), it wasn't taken to a weighoff but weighed on certified scales with witnesses.

I second Owen. Please send me your "fake" 1233.5 and I will challenge him in growing it.

Brad

3/28/2006 1:24:23 AM

Itzetown City

I second Owen also! And my hands also open for the 1233 seeds.
Thus discussion about the 1233 is a shame.
Even I was kicked out of a German Pumpkin Grower Forum (running by Floh and Beggersche) after I declared on my website that the 1233 is the heaviest Pumpkin ever grown in Europe. lol

3/28/2006 4:52:39 AM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

Ditto to what Owen ,Brad and Boehnke said. I would not be surprized if you don't see any seeds coming to the states from Martin in the future. Thanks for the seeds Martin I really do appreciate all the trouble you went to, to get the seeds to the states. Good luck growing another fantastic pumpkin in 2006.

3/28/2006 5:29:58 AM

actually its common knowledge that the photo with the pumpkin on the scale is photoshopped.poorly done at that..I have no problem with it..and the seeds have nice blood no matter what the weight of the mother really was.That pumpkin must have been a sight to behold,I would have loved to see it..whats that saying about a picture saying a thousand words..

3/28/2006 5:48:52 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I was informed there was two weigh off's and the 1233.4 was weighed there. If it wasn't taken to any weigh off and weighed on a certified scales with witnesses, then why hasn't the witnesses come forth and let Mr. Reiss use there photo's? Where is a photo of photo of ANYONE next to the pumpkin on the scales?All I can say about the whole issue with my past police back( until a back problem) ground is, there are to many lies and different stories changed around. Plus Mr. Reiss should of never posted a fake picture and said it was the real thing. Therefore it's hard to have some people beleive it's a real pumpkin at 1233.4. In the USA, you wouldn't have a country record with out proof and an offical weigh off site. Like what Bruce Whittier went through. He at least had lots of people there. And even the local news and many pictures posted of the weighing of his pumpkin on the scales......

3/28/2006 6:25:32 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Also, I would never ever plant the 1233.5 because of the stories behind it. With what's out there, how do you really know what the parents are of the pumpkin? Did it really weigh that much? Honesty gets you farther in life then lies or misleading people to believe something that isn't real.

3/28/2006 6:33:07 AM

Knopp, Germany

1. I do not know of any lies that were told. If you can prove a lie, please do.
2. Stories started from people that do not know anything about how the weighoff on the official, certified scale took place. They are only assumptions, believe me or not, I got the emails from assuming people to prove that. And you know what words make up ass-u-me.
3. Martin never posted anything to mis-lead anyone, he was only trying to show us what his pumpkin looked like on the scale so that we would have some kind of mental picture of it. I am sure it is killing him today that his camera cards failed on him.
4. There were witnesses, again an assumption on your part that there were not any. I personnally know 2 of the witnesses.
5. I would have loved to have seen the pumpkin myself. That is one thing that we finally do agree on. That was Martin's decision. I don't like it either, but I respect it.
6. "His card failed", some may say, yeah, right. At the weighoff that Martin brought his 1008 to, he asked me to take a picture of him next to my squash. Guess what, the camera was the same used for his 1233.5, and yup, you guessed it, it had a card failure in my own hands.
7. People like you are the reason why I truly have considered so many times giving up on this wonderful website. You are publicly attacking and defamating Martin's character.

I will leave now, you can attack mine as well, it doesn't matter.

3/28/2006 6:55:56 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Good points made here about intentionally altering photos...even with an "excuse". Lost data recovery too? Hmmmm....
Sure makes folks wonder...not sure I'll ever want to grow a "1233" unless I could see some true verification, which a Europian record should have.

3/28/2006 7:02:02 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

I agree smells fishy..
1.Diary enteries all posted on one day
2.Europes biggest pumpkin ever weighed has no pictures, and is cut up the same day weighed or day after
3.Weighed with certified scales and notorized...Meaning there is paper work to follow.
4. Integrity is a big thing in this sport/hobby. My 818.5 was weighed on a certified scale on the pallet at 1175 lbs...wooo yooo I broke 1000...But I knew it estimated at 750. Even thought the guy weighing the pumpkin insisted the scale was correct..

3/28/2006 9:16:32 AM

Decatur, IL

I think we should hold off on the defamatory remarks until we have proof that there was any wrong doing. It's almost like a public lynching. It's sure not any good for international relations. Like we need it to get any worse than it already is!

3/28/2006 10:00:58 AM

That State Up North

I have watched this debate for several months, and I have a few comments:
For some people, growing the pumpkin is more important than showing the pumpkin. And making a good seed that will allow growers everywhere to enjoy similar success is also an important goal.
For someone to harvest the seeds quickly to preserve seed quality rather than showing it all over the nation, or trying to sell the fruit says a lot about what is important.
I was not in germany when the 1233 was grown or weighed, so I will never know if it was real, but there are a lot of other pumpkins I have never seen.
I tend to trust people, especialy pumpkin growers. It is only right since we all have the same mental illness that we stick together.
Photoshopping, conspiracy, lies, legitimacy, and everything else can and have been well discussed, and for those who enjoy these things, continue, but I don't see any good information resulting.
And with that, I will plan to spend my efforts on more important things like growing pumpkins.


anyone have 1233 or 1008 Reiss seeds to trade, I am interested to aquire as many as I may, just let me know what you are looking for in trade.

Nic Welty

3/28/2006 10:06:31 AM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

In defence of Martin, I heard these acusations back in January, so I emailed Martin and asked him what was up. The explanation I received from Martin was and is good enough for me.
Also during this time I also included Danny Dill in the discussion, because he was selling Martin's seeds.
Danny and Martin discussed this at length. The end results was that Danny Dill also agreed the pumpkin was real. This all happened before the seeds went on sale. I honestly think, if there was any hint of misrepresentation, Danny would not have sold the seeds.
Also I agree with Owen on this, we sure can slander someone in a hurry, and that's too bad.
So bottom line, is I honestly and truely believe the 1233 is real. My research tells me it, Martin tells me it is and Danny Dill tells me it is.
Also if you have access to the AGGC, I think a search of the progeny of the 801.5 Stelts is in order. Every year the 801 has broken the 1000 pound barrier, there are many pumpkins that have grown well over that.
So if Martin grew an 801 to 1004 pounds, then without question, his ground and climate would have allowed him to grow a 1233. Another angle, Bill Northrup grew 1101, now look at his location in the world, and then look at Martins. Compare the weather patterns for both and you will see they were quite similar. with Martin getting the nod for higher day time temps. I researched this very extensively, so I don't need a picture to authenticate the 1233,
Eddy

3/28/2006 10:24:23 AM

Waquoit Mass

I have always believed thatin life and growing pumpkins that your reputation is very important. Did martin do some things that could have been more honest and out in the open maybe. But thats just the point the fact that we are even talking about it proves its been on growers minds. I myself would have gone out of my way to make sure that everything was documented if i had a new record. And this disscussion we are having now wouldnt be happening .Will there always be doubt by some sure. A lesson to be learned by all .

3/28/2006 10:24:45 AM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

I too have been watching this debate and everyone has the right to their own opinion. I am looking at both sides of the story and everyone is making valid points. I do find it disturbing though that anyone would alter photos, for any reason. If you look at the link Vineman posted of the picture of the pumpkin on the scales, if you cant see that that is a fake just by looking at it, you need glasses....lol. Why even post something like that. There are also other photos out there that also look disturbing.

I do find it hard to believe that there is no photo of the pumpkin on the scales, especially if a new European record is broken. Folks, it just does not make sense, I dont care what anyone says.

I am not hear to bust anyones chops, it is just sad to see this debate going no where. The question is why where the photos doctored and why are questions not being answered and why in the hell are seeds being sold when there are so many questions. Sorry, but that is my own opinion...

Everyone, we grow pumpkins. People should be ashamed with themselves for letting this go this far. If us growers are too proud to answer questions or lie or cheat than it aint worth growing at all. Just mt 2 cents..........

3/28/2006 10:33:13 AM

Germany

I got to know Martin closer last year and he´s a very honest young man. For me there´s no doubt about the 1233.


@ BOEHNKE, lies soon catch up with one! You definitely know that you weren´t kicked out of our message board because you declared anything about the 1233. You were kicked out because you created the membership account on our board with a faked nickname and a faked e-Mail address and because you vituperated against us and our board. The truth is that you are an intriguer and most of the German speaking growers know that. Take care, nasty guy!

Beggersche

3/28/2006 11:40:16 AM

No Place Special

He grew one to 1008 lbs and that one is documented and all. Why is it so hard to believe that he grew a 1233 lb pumpkin? I understand that things look a little "fishy" but things happen. I believe Martin and the 1233 will find a very nice home in my patch.

Mike Frantz

3/28/2006 12:49:25 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

I don't know Martin personally, and have had very limited email contact with him. I have no concrete reason to doubt his pumpkin was 1233.5 lbs. From his diary entries, it appears he is very conscientous in making sure his crosses are contolled and untainted(something to be applauded). I can't recall any post from him that would suggest he's anything other than a fine young man.
There is a very good chance I'll be growing the 1233.5 Reiss in my patch this year. Those genetics are awesome orange IMO!

3/28/2006 1:00:42 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Interesting link....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_4300000/newsid_4305100/4305112.stm

3/28/2006 1:07:51 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

kg to lbs= kgs x 2.2 (approx)

3/28/2006 1:12:29 PM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

What is in question is why were photos doctored and why is there no response, except for my camera was broke. Why would photos need to be doctored is what everyone seems to be getting at from the posts above. It is just bad taste. I hate to say this but if things look "fishy" why would you even consider growing the seed. I for one would never ever grow it or grow a seed from its offspring if things were "fishy".

Everyone busts each others chops about making sure the pollen was secure before doing the deed, did you tie up the female, did you get out early enough to do it right, was the moon and sun properly aligned. C'MON guys!!!! We go thru these hoops all the time with growers and if any of those were in question, would you grow the seed? Heck no!!! Would you grow a seed that has many questions in regards to it being real, pointed out by very respectable growers? Good luck with that one.

3/28/2006 1:16:34 PM

Esneux / Liège / BELGIUM

Martin is young
Martin is european, and is the european record holder.
Martin had 2 orange 1000+ the same year.
Howard Dill wants his seeds to sale them.

I think a lot of grower here are very disappointed with his success ! People who blame Martin weren't promised his seeds...

Jealousy, and calomny. That's all.

Sophie

3/28/2006 1:35:05 PM

Netherlands

Does anybody have a 1233.5 Reiss for Johny Pumpkinseed? We kind of stole his thunder.

I am also still looking for one.

If everyone grows it and they all produce little wee whitish pumpkins, we will know it was the hoax of the year. If they produce big, orange pumpkins...

Brad

3/28/2006 2:07:43 PM

Esneux / Liège / BELGIUM

I keep mine, and I will plant it !

Sophie

3/28/2006 2:10:02 PM

Ontario

The other rumour is that the color was retouched on the 1233 and that a person/grower who works in the photo industry says if you play with photo crop enough that the 1008 and the 1233 are the same pumpkin just retouched. It still is hard to believe no one else took a picture of the 1233. Again this seed will have a similiar reputation as the 845 Bobier people will always question it. Too bad if it really was 1233.

drew

3/28/2006 2:24:40 PM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

Bryson; I believe I have a 1233.5 coming. When it gets here I will send it to you to plant. I didn't have plans for it this year and by the sounds of things I should not have any problem getting a hold of another next season. I am sorry your simple post got so out of hand. It's just not right. good luck in 2006 and have fun growing. steve zuhlke

3/28/2006 2:35:20 PM

Netherlands

Drew, totally agree with you. Too bad about its reputation.

What is even more amazing than Martin's presumed photo shop skills is that the 1233.5 was all cut up half way through September and then put together to go to the weighoff in October as the 1008 and not even Owen noticed!

3/28/2006 3:20:43 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

lol

3/28/2006 3:31:24 PM

Itzetown City

@ beggersche:
Call me a liar. I do not care.
But tell us, what the heck is a _faked nickname_?
And the e-mail adress I gave you
"maulwurf@fahr-zur-hoelle.org"
is'nt a fake, anyone who want to prove it, it still works. Oooo You forget, you sent the account dates to me over thus adress by yourself.
Message-ID: <c58ff1e1527647278daf8efe5eec6388@www.forum.big-pumpkins.de
ROTFLMAO

3/28/2006 4:14:19 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

If there really wasn't a real weigh off on September 15th in German, why would Mr. Reiss cut the pumpkin off and weigh it on a plain old scales and not wait until October 1st and take it to the weigh off? He could of taken the two pumpkins on October 1st and had both of them weighed like most place allow you to. But they only counts and they will be more then happy to weigh the second one for you. If he left the 1233.5 in the patch until October 1st, Just think as to how big this would of been. (if it was real at all)

3/28/2006 5:12:15 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Who is it that "certifies" and "records" a pumpkin as the European record anyway? Does this mean an * goes beside the 1233?
Lots of valid points both ways but I think if someone doctors a photo, and then is forced to explain it because they were called on it, then they are perfectly capable of going the rest of the way. Only 2 ways to handle a *potential* lie---fess up and come clean, or get so buried in it that it becomes reality in their mind, so much so that the lie and the truth are near indistinguishable.

3/28/2006 6:35:05 PM

Mt Vernon Ky

I have 5 1233 coming and I am giving one to a new found buddy and I will be planting it this year a man is only as good as he's word until proven to be wrong if you all don't want them send them to your club to auction off next year as proven seeds Vic

3/28/2006 9:03:16 PM

Barrington N.S. Canada

Look at pictures in Martins diary for 2005. See all the pictures of his 1233.5 in the garden. The 1233.5 and the 1008.4 have a different shape on the front of the pumpkins. John.

3/28/2006 9:09:34 PM

Barrington N.S. Canada

If you do not want your 1233.5 Riess seeds send them to me. John.

3/28/2006 9:15:24 PM

Sort of Sunny Sometimes, WA

I sent Martin $5 and a bubble. If I (ever) get the bubble, I will believe it is a 1233. Martin is a nice guy.

3/28/2006 9:16:11 PM

San Diego

I have no reason to distrust Martin, personally I have never met him. Just a side note, most of this discusion could have been avoided "if" Martin didn't chop a fake pic of his pumpkin on a scale. Bad idea, it could only lead to speculation by some growers. Should have just admitted the pic's got lost and left it at that. Too bad more planning wasn't done for a "potential" record pumpkin being weighed before it was done.
Just a side note, I had a potential southern california unofficial record (due to a split) and I had 40 people show up, many had cameras, and many pic's taken by others while on the scale. It is bizarre that only a few showed up for this weighing with no cameras.

3/28/2006 9:32:59 PM

Dorval,Quebec

Geez I just saw an episode of America's most wanted and there was a picture of a smiling guy behind a huge orange pumpkin....Mike

3/28/2006 11:06:06 PM

Deer Park WA

How many pumpkins/squash have we as growers grown that were never weighed or photographed? Most of our Gadberry fruits are sold or wind up as compost with no documentation. If you like to grow pumpkins and want another grower seeds then ask for them respectfully and give them a shot, to second guess and ridicule any grower publicly is shamefull and casts a poor light on this very small community.

Good Luck in "06" Martin and hold your head high.

Gerry

3/29/2006 2:03:02 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Looks like a duck; sounds lie a duck; must be.....
No pics, no witnesses to come forth, no paperwork, no record.

3/29/2006 6:34:18 AM

Massachusetts

Gerry..... will you treat the pumpkin you grow this year that is in contention for a record in the same manner?

3/29/2006 7:01:55 AM

Alex, IN

Here's the way I see it. As far as I know Martin has never lied to anyone, he has all ways been glad to help anyone get a seed if he has it and is now growing it ( I am one of those getting a seed from him). I have no reason to think or even entertain the idea that Martin lied to us.

I think that we all need to lay off of him and keep from getting so upset. Those of you who have said bad things about him are treating him no differant than that DJ Murphy guy that was selling fake seeds on ebay!!

I think that the 1233 was very real, it was bigger and more beuatiful than most of us have ever grown! The 1233 is not on my main list but is on my backup list due to the fact that I have seeds that are proven and plan to keep the 1233 so that I have a HOT proven seed this fall!

Please stop beating each other up over this stuff! If you dont think that the 1233 is real then dont grow it or anything from it, let those of us who belive that it is real grow it!

We only have a month until it is warm and we are outside and growing our baby's instead of being on this site tearing each other up!

God Bless,
Mikkal

3/29/2006 7:35:01 AM

Itzetown City

Long before the 1233 was grown Martin said that he was not willing to get a Pumpkin like this to the weighoff running by Jucker. He was ever only interesting in the seeds of this cross. Due to his schedule, he is a student, he had to rip off the the Pumpkin that weekend, to prevent seeds germinating in the Pumpkin. May be another one had react in an other way, Martin did it due to the circumstances in a rash, afterwards a mishap we all smarties.
Trust or distrust, but keep it for you please and stop this shameful discussion.

3/29/2006 7:48:33 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

This is really none of my business especially since I have no desire to grow the 1233. However this seed has been critically acclaimed by eager growers. If it is grown as widely as it appears it will be, the 1233 will have far reaching implications on future generations if a portion of the general growing community doesn't accept it as a sound fruit.

Martin, This is coming to you in the way of friendly advice. My words are intended to inform in a constructive way. Please do not take this as a personal attack against your character or your seed. Folks have been keeping their concerns off the boards out of respect for your integrity & so as not to impugn your character.

But this matter has gotten out of hand now.

Let's look at the facts as we find them:

The new European record has not a single picture of it on a scale or in the presence of a witness. Here in GPC land, this makes it the 1233 Riess '05 UOW. So what?

Folks have been quietly debating the 1233 since October. Some have taken apart the images & have found some very creative (yet impossible to conceal or deny) alterations to the backgrounds. This LOOKS suspect.

continued

3/29/2006 7:56:42 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Another image I saw LOOKS like the blossom end was manipulated which lends credence to the DMG concerns. The rib lines of a couple images look like they're from the same fruit. To conceal this, one image was twisted slightly to make it look different. So now the seeds might be labeled 1233.5 Riess 2005 DMG. Again, so what?

If the 1233 hit a scale in one solid piece then you really need to get that card debugged. This isn't "just a good idea". It is necessary to the future of growing if the 1233 is used in crosses. There are many people who have the resources available to retrieve those images at no cost to you what so ever.

However sincere you are, due to the lack of documentation, and the manipulation of the limited documentation that took place, the 1233 *LOOKS* like it was going down. When you tried to lift it early - the bottom fell out.

The chances of a technical camera malfunction are plausible. But the solution is too easy for a guy who has a well earned reputation for detail & is fastidious about documenting & photographing all of his other fruit.

Disappearing from the boards (busy at university) has also lead to people's suspicions. No one is THAT busy.

This published quote from you also makes people nervous:
_________begin clip_____________________________________
The Bavarian pumpkin grower Martin Reiss said he was very pleased with winning the competition in the German town of Ludwigsburg.

"I wanted to achieve 400 kilograms. A few weeks ago I harvested one which was even heavier but it was too ripe already and I had to get rid of it," he said.
___________end clip________________________________________

PLEASE get this matter cleared up before folks start growing.

3/29/2006 7:56:51 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

One interesting thing also is that Martin (Mr. Orange) has not defended himself at all on this post.Plus if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, Martin has to live with himself as to if the 1233.5 is for real or a fake. But my Dad always said that, a man is more of a man if he admitts the truth. Even thou he lied or mislead people so he could gain in his life to get where he wanted to be. The good Lord knows the truth. In many ways, If you give things to the Lord, he will take care of things. If you read the bible, different ones never got any where in life, had bad luck or health. The good Lord said, They who don't confess there sins shall never have forgiveness until they do so. As saying this, Mr. Reiss is the one who has to live with himself. Speak the truth and the whole truth as to someday, the good Lord might catch up with him. Amen. I myself I am done here and will leave all of this in the hands of God and his son, Jesus Christ...Amen

3/29/2006 8:37:25 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

This is really none of my business especially since I have no desire to grow the 1233. However this seed has been critically acclaimed by eager growers. If it is grown as widely as it appears it will be, the 1233 will have far reaching implications on future generations if a portion of the general growing community doesn't accept it as a sound fruit.

--> As some people (e.g. Doug, Nic) have noticed the purity of the crosses is very important to me. I have made any possible effort to make sure that the seeds that I was going to plant in 2005 were genuine and had the proper genetics. My crosses were done with as much consideration and attention as possible so I have no doubt that the genetics are good. Also, besides a little rot on the stems caused by cold and rainy weather (not genetic) neither my 1233.5 nor my 1008.4 had any defects. No serious sag lines, no stem or blossom splits, no external cracks and only very shallow internal cracks. Thus, to my best knowledge I can say with an easy conscience that the seed should have the genetic potential that people expect and due to my preference of big and orange I can only hope that my 05 seeds will have “far reaching implications on future generations” . Of course, it is still unproven and we all know what that means.

3/29/2006 9:25:11 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

Martin, This is coming to you in the way of friendly advice. My words are intended to inform in a constructive way. Please do not take this as a personal attack against your character or your seed.

--> I’m not regarding your comment as an attack, I know what your intentions are.

Folks have been keeping their concerns off the boards out of respect for your integrity & so as not to impugn your character.

--> Off the boards? Really? I got another impression…

But this matter has gotten out of hand now.

Let's look at the facts as we find them:

The new European record has not a single picture of it on a scale or in the presence of a witness. Here in GPC land, this makes it the 1233 Riess '05 UOW. So what?

--> yes, we have no GPC standards in Germany, neither at private nor at public weighoffs, thus telling from a GPC point of view the 1008.4 should also be classified as UOW just as any other pumpkin ever weighed in Germany and of course also the 1233.5.

Folks have been quietly debating the 1233 since October. Some have taken apart the images & have found some very creative (yet impossible to conceal or deny) alterations to the backgrounds. This LOOKS suspect.

3/29/2006 9:25:33 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

--> exactly, the background. But I am wondering what the background has to do with the main parts of the picture, the 1233.5 lbs pumpkin that is here. And if people look closely they will see such modifications of the background in a wide variety of my pictures from all years, pictures of the 1008.4, my tomatoes, flowers, etc. The only intention has always been to make the pictures look nicer. If I post something in public I at least want it to look good.

Another image I saw LOOKS like the blossom end was manipulated which lends credence to the DMG concerns. The rib lines of a couple images look like they're from the same fruit.

3/29/2006 9:25:55 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

--> I have to disagree with you heavily here, sorry, you are just wrong. Like I said above NO changes have ever been made to important parts of the pictures, in this case the pumpkin itself. With that being said there, of course, were no changes made to the blossom or stem end or any ribs of the pumpkins. The fruits have never been retouched in any way.
By the way, Drew mentioned that I might have changed the colors of the pictures to make things look more orange and bright. That’s also wrong. To some extend I can understand questions on the color because colors are never the same. Take pictures of the same fruit with ten different cameras and you'll get ten differnt variants of color. Almost the same is true with 35 mm films, Kodak films usually display things more colorful, AGFA and Futchi films usually have more natural colors, etc.

To conceal this, one image was twisted slightly to make it look different. So now the seeds might be labeled 1233.5 Riess 2005 DMG. Again, so what?

If the 1233 hit a scale in one solid piece then you really need to get that card debugged. This isn't "just a good idea". It is necessary to the future of growing if the 1233 is used in crosses. There are many people who have the resources available to retrieve those images at no cost to you what so ever.

3/29/2006 9:26:20 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

However sincere you are, due to the lack of documentation, and the manipulation of the limited documentation that took place, the 1233 *LOOKS* like it was going down. When you tried to lift it early - the bottom fell out.

--> at harvest time the 1233.5 was sound and free of rot.

The chances of a technical camera malfunction are plausible. But the solution is too easy for a guy who has a well earned reputation for detail & is fastidious about documenting & photographing all of his other fruit.

--> that’s a comment in favour of me, right? Too plain simple to be a lie.

Disappearing from the boards (busy at university) has also lead to people's suspicions. No one is THAT busy.

--> have you ever heard of growers who try to take a little break from pumpkin stuff during the winter? Also, I got hammered with email requests for seeds and growing tips. Also there is family life, Christmas stuff and other free time activities besides pumpkins. Hell, do I have to explain what I do at times and why???

3/29/2006 9:26:51 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

This published quote from you also makes people nervous:
_________begin clip_____________________________________
The Bavarian pumpkin grower Martin Reiss said he was very pleased with winning the competition in the German town of Ludwigsburg.

"I wanted to achieve 400 kilograms. A few weeks ago I harvested one which was even heavier but it was too ripe already and I had to get rid of it," he said.
___________end clip________________________________________

--> I’m not exactly sure why this makes people nervous again. Maybe some are close to a nervous breakdown or something but there is nothing in it that makes me nervous. Did I want to achieve 400 kg – yes. Was the 1233.5 heavier than the 1008.4, the pumpkin the reporter is referring to – yes, it was. Was the 1233.5 ripe – yes, it was, the indicator clock showed no more growth. Waiting another three weeks until the public weighoff might have been to long. I took the seeds out and got rid of it – correct. I really can’t remember what I said to which reporter but I can say for sure that I gave no interview in English. So, this is a (probably very freely done) translation.


PLEASE get this matter cleared up before folks start growing.

--> I will post a little more (copied from recently sent emails) to read through for all who find this entertaining and can’t get enough.

3/29/2006 9:27:13 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

“XXX,

you can't imagine how much I would like to "set the record straight". But I just don't have the picture that everyone is looking for.

Lots of people also told me not to let me get down and to hold my head high. Well, I will try my best although it obviously is not easy. Every time I read the comments on BP.com I feel itched to post a reply but there are so many questions, lies and accusations that I don't know what to say, I could write pages trying to explain things and could still probably not clarify any more as I just don't have any new info that would help.

People also don't seem to understand that the pumpkin hobby has a somewhat other importance in Germany. I phoned up the "Bild Zeitung" (newspaper) when I was preparing for the weighing and they were just not interested. When telling people about my hobby all they usually do is shake their heads and walk away. People's acceptance especially fades when telling that the pumpkin will be thrown on the compost pile after weighing it instead of making good use of it. US growers seem to think that a crowd of people and media will gather around the weighing scene cheering, taking pictures, etc. That's just not the case here.
Why do people care at all? Some sound like they are taking this as a personal issue which it isn't.
Some of the posts on BP.com are just hilarious. e.g. when I read XXX's statement "not sure I'll ever want to grow a "1233" unless I could see some true verification" I can't stop laughing about it. It just sounds like I am trying to force someone to grow my seed, the opposite is true, I am out of seeds and wish requests would settle down. And the weirdest thing is that those people who are now bashing me were begging for seeds before!

3/29/2006 9:41:36 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

This is just about a pumpkin. A pumpkin is a fruit that consists of 95% water, is worth almost nothing and will rot to a stinking pile of much within a week of cutting it open. It's nothing to get excited about and even less something to fight about.

It's hard to just get back to business and grow pumpkins. I was growing pumpkins only for one reason: my own joy and pleasure. And as you can easily imagine it isn't pure joy right now. Maybe it's time to do other things from now on.

XXX said “For some people, growing the pumpkin is more important than showing the pumpkin. And making a good seed that will allow growers everywhere to enjoy similar success is also an important goal.
For someone to harvest the seeds quickly to preserve seed quality rather than showing it all over the nation, or trying to sell the fruit says a lot about what is important.”
I couldn’t have said it better what has been important to me.

On a final note, I am glad that the majority of people in this hobby are still like you, either supporting me or at least staying neutral, not accusing me of anything without having proof. I understand that others have doubts and questions, I would probably think comparable about another grower in a situation like mine. But I can't accept those few who are publicly accusing me of lying, cheating, etc. That's something I never did and so it hurts my feelings. Nobody (even not XXX or XXX LOL) will ever be able to find proof for lies and still they behave like if they had such proof.
When I read XXX's comment "The other rumour is that the color was retouched on the 1233 and that a person/grower who works in the photo industry says if you play with photo crop enough that the 1008 and the 1233 are the same pumpkin just retouched." I just can't stop shaking my head. The color was never retouched, I swear.

3/29/2006 9:42:05 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

I also have 35 mm prints and negatives and mini DV video coverage of the 1233.5 together with me that show size and color just as good as the digital images do. Maybe sending the negatives to a trustworthy person in the US (but who? would have to be an independent person or others would surely start rumours again) will be the thing to do in the end. Do you think this is something to do?

XXX got it right by saying "look at pictures in Martins diary for 2005. See all the pictures of his 1233.5 in the garden. The 1233.5 and the 1008.4 have a different shape on the front of the pumpkins." people sure would have to have serious eye problems if they can't see the differences between the 1233.5 and the 1008.4.

See, I could write pages and pages and it still doesn't improve the situation, so I will close now. I'm sorry for this long email.

Martin“

3/29/2006 9:42:22 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

Steve, this is also in response to your comment and offer of help "If the 1233 hit a scale in one solid piece then you really need to get that card debugged. This isn't 'just a good idea'. It is necessary to the future of growing if the 1233 is used in crosses. There are many people who have the resources available to retrieve those images at no cost to you what so ever":

--> "Hi XXX, I wish someone had made such a generous and helpful offer like yours when all this happened last fall but nobody did. All what people did was to tell me which free programmes to download for data recovery (I did that but it didn't help a thing) and which companies to contact. Maybe they could have helped but they would have charged hilarious fees, hundreds of Euros. And money is an issue for me, can't spend all on pumpkin stuff.

I made lots of efforts to recover something from the card from mid Sept to Oct. Someone suggested reformatting the card and said it wouldn't further hurt the lost data, I don't know if that is true. I reformatted it and after that it indeed seemed to work again. I again used it at the European weighoff and, as Owen mentioned it in the thread, it again went bad on me and I disposed it after that. (...)"

3/29/2006 9:49:42 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Martin,

I must have missed a few posts. I hadn't heard that the color is in question...I thought it was stunning. But look at the mother. Forget the color. Color isn't the issue.

Threw the camera media away??? I never followed this one either.

Perhaps it is because we do make such a big deal out of giant pumpkins in North America that Europe's lack of interest seems out of character with this whole situation.

I'm no judge in this situation. Next time, float or fly the thing to Penfield. I'd be honored to weigh it, photograph it & document it for the entire world to enjoy. I'm just trying to help you qualify this fruit so the brotherhood of growers doesn't remain split on the 1233.

It is the validity of the 1233 & it's future progeny that are currently at risk. As long as SOME growers question that validity, then a lot of growers efforts to produce good crosses will be wasted. Many hopes are riding on the 1233.

Some one, somewhere has to find a picture of this damn pumpkin sitting on a scale or reasonably close to it on the day of weighing. Then the matter will be settled. Even a print or negative can easily be scanned & posted to prop up peoples confidence.

I knew when I hit "Post Reply" that I'd regret getting involved. When will I learn?

3/29/2006 10:09:55 AM

Knopp, Germany

As they say in the army, sh!thouse lawyers and bible thumpers! Man, I sure hope the YOU guys can live with yourselves. Talk about a clique, some of you guys need to take a good look in the mirror.

I have plenty more on my mind to say, but I will not lower myself.

Ken, John, thanks for a wonderful website, it has accomplished it's mission statement for me. I hope that some of these legends in their own minds do not ruin it for the future "owen's".

Best wishes to all.

Grow em big, have fun.

3/29/2006 10:14:55 AM

Eugene,OR

Martin: Congrats again on growing the most beautiful giant pumpkin ever. I only hope that one day I might grow a pumpkin similar to your 1233.5 which is so huge, beautiful, and nearly perfect that people simply can not believe their eyes. Perhaps my best chance at growing that pumpkin will come this year when I grow your 1233.5 seed.

3/29/2006 10:16:45 AM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

I am hopping you are on the giving side but I do have some seeds to trade for the 1233.5 Reiss 2005
thanks
Bryson Ensign
And to think this all started with this simple request from a 12 year old 1st time grower. He must be wondering if he did something wrong. Bryson when I get the seed I will get it to you asap. steve zuhlke

3/29/2006 10:31:43 AM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

Ps;
this has to be the biggest hijack of a post on record.

3/29/2006 10:32:38 AM

Somerset,Ky

Martin

The 1233.5 IS going in the ground here! WOW! what a pumpkin
anyone with seeds from the 1233.5 they do not want.I will send
a SABE bubble. Thanks Martin for growing such a nice pimpkin

John Van Hook

3/29/2006 12:05:09 PM

Somerset,Ky

Pumkin* OOPS LOL WOW

3/29/2006 12:06:30 PM

Netherlands

Begin a Canadian living in Europe I would like to support Martin in his statement about how Europeans view pumpkin growing.
None of the newspapers I called ever came, not even the village newspapers. I actually sent them pictures and wrote the text myself before one little paper published it.
I also had friends come along to the scales. Nobody brought along a camera except for me. Fortunately mine worked.
And yes, we are generally seen as very odd people here. In my case they simply mutter that I must be some weird Canadian, in Martin's case they probably just think he's nuts.
Outside of England we grow vegetables for consumption here in Europe and not for anything else. That explains why nobody gives a hoot about pumpkin weighoffs or would ever think of bringing along a camera to take pictures with.

I hope you N.A. guys can appreciate our loneliness here. :)

3/29/2006 12:17:56 PM

Somerset,Ky

Working 16 hr shifts I can't even half spell HA HA HA

3/29/2006 12:19:38 PM

Ohio

Martin, I told you it would come out sooner or later and I think you knew it would too. It just seems funny to me how one person can claim a european record when he was the only person that has seen it. Surly someone who went with you to get this monster weighed brought a camera for the biggest pumpkin in Europe? Someone?
In your diary of your photoshop picture of the 1233 on the scale you mentioned

"'things couldn't have gone more smoothly' on weigh off day.""

But that isnt the truth is it martin? It couldnt have went more perfect if your camera crapped out on you right? Why wouldnt you have mentioned that in the same diary log?,instead someone asked you about why the 1233 on the scale about it being altered and only then do give them the story your camera card went bad. Why not just mention that in the first place Martin?

3/29/2006 2:25:21 PM

Ohio

I have took your 1008 and used the ""MESH" tool in photo shop and have made it look almost exactly like your 1233, ribs,shape color everything. Their is no possable way I could do this with any other two pumpkins using this tool, it has to be the same pumpkin or it wont work, What I mean by that is I cant take your 1008 and use the mesh tool and make it look like a 1097 Beachy, their is just no possable way way for me to bend and twist the picture to even come close.
You say what about the picture of the pumpkin, the background doesnt change the pumpkin, but I disagree Martin, I can take a mesh tool and make a pumpkin any size and shape and color I want. If anyone has a photo program take the picture of the 1008 or the 1233 and use the mesh tool and you will see exactly what Im talking about.

3/29/2006 2:26:04 PM

Ontario

Since Martin referred to me about retouching the color that I sent to him in a private email, my friend who works in digital camera field for a living has said exactly the same thing as posted above about the two pumpkins being the same.

drew

3/29/2006 2:53:02 PM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

Can someone post pictures somewhere so we can see what the heck everyone is talking about....lol

3/29/2006 3:13:18 PM

Decatur, IL

Just an observation...After July 8, when the 1008.4 was 20 days old, there is no mention of it again until the Oct. 8 entry in Martin's grower's diary. That was the day before the weighoff. There are numerous entries giving OTT measurements and estimated weights for the 1233.5 between day 20 and its weighing.

3/29/2006 3:40:49 PM

canal winchester ohio

WOW! I don't post much anymore, but I do read all the posts & this one is amazing. I only want to make one point, it's hard to call someone a liar unless you actually witnessed what really happened. I have no real opinion on this one way or the other, but I too have had things happen in my life that when I tried to explain it no one would believe it because it seemed so crazy. Just something to think about & if anyone is unsure about using his seeds after you get them just send them to Bryson Ensign, because he seems to want to have one.
Winter sucks doesn't it, good thing planting time is very near :)..................Paul

3/29/2006 3:42:16 PM

San Diego

as an unbiased non photo shop expert lol, I checked out Martin's diary. The stems on both the 801 and 670 fruit look "identical" in shape, size, and direction, fruit shapes identical, fruits leaning back indentical in same direction, blossom ends identical, coincidince? hhhhhhhmmm been growing a long time and never seen two pumpkins that similar from two different plants in someones patch. And why does the 801 pumpkin in Martin's diary disappear after day 20 and never is shown again until harvest and weigh off? Makes no sense. Then you add in no pic's on scale, no witnesses, no paperwork, and a photo shopped pic on a scale? I'm not trying to rip anyone, but the facts are stacking up pretty high one way. Jimmy

3/29/2006 3:48:08 PM

Eugene,OR

So let's say that maybe the 1233.5 was nore like a low 700 pounder (not that I'm saying that I believe this to be the case). Knowing the genetics of the fruit, and the potiential for its offspring, would this make it an undesirable seed to plant? After Bill Bobier's 723 was an UOW fruit (and AGGC doesn't even have a picture of it), and we all know about its success after being widely planted. I believe that this seed will be widely planted and that the genetics will prevail. 1233/1133/1033/933/833/733 what's the difference to me...what I care about it what its offspring will be like. If mine is over 800-1000 pounds, smooth skinned, round shaped, I think that it will be awesome.

3/29/2006 4:12:47 PM

Itzetown City

Now that all things are comimg up, I can say it "I gues Martin faked my trailer" LOL
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=43750
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=43249

3/29/2006 4:32:05 PM

Utah

to me ... the 1008 seen here
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=43758
and here
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=43750

do not look like the 1223 seen here
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=42896
and here
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=42528
and here
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=42523

yes they do have a uncanny resemblence. The stem and blossom ends also the number of ribs and rib locations appear to be the similar.
but both were 6 lobed fruit
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=42457
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=42481

and one was from the 801 Stelts and the other from the 670 which is 1/4 th 801 stelts. and both have 567 Mombert in them.

if you look at the earilier posts. there are two fruit and they are definately different ... but have many similar charateristes... namely the ones I listed above.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=42560
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=42507

my opinion is Martin the benefit of the doubt.

but if you still think it is a fake then don't obtain or plant any of the seeds... I think we will probably find out in a couple of years -after people plant the seed...
and we see how it does.
... and I guess if they do well then all the people who posted negatively here will be looking for one ?
... and if the do poorly then the controversy will go on...

I'm with Paul on this one ... many times the truth is stranger than fiction and harder to explain away in hind site.

personally ... I hope they do well !

and we wonder why people leave the site and don't come back...

3/29/2006 5:20:34 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

guys, with all due respect to everyone's concerns and questions, I will let most accusations just slide off of me but I can't accept the accusation that the 1233.5 never existed and that there was only one pumpkin. This is so hilarious that I can't live with it.
There is one so simple answer why there were no day 30, 40, 50, etc. posts of the 801.5 fruit: I made all entries about the middle of September. At that time I knew exactly that the 670 Daigle fruit would be weighed earlier and that the 801.5 fruit was the one I take to the public weighoff. I just wanted to keep some tension up on how the 801.5 is doing in order to make the contest more interesting, that's the only reason.
After the weighoff I had no idea of how important these posts were for some people and so I didn't make them. Check out the diary again, I just wasted another half an hour of my valuable life time (lol) for this quarrel and made them for you.
Now look at the pictures closely so that my effort of posting these was not made for nothing.

3/29/2006 5:43:04 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

only three of the new entries have been screened so far and are up... be patient

3/29/2006 5:52:11 PM

Eugene,OR

Martin: It is a shame that you are having to go through this crap (for lack of a better word). Look at the bright side--a lot of people are interested and care about the pumpkin you grew, and this will only add to it's legend as it becomes the greatest orange producer of all times. A year ago I didn't think that a person could grow "orange" and be competitive...your season last year has convinced me that it is possible. If I was you I'd tell everyone that this pushed you over the edge and that you have been put into a mental institute and can do nothing but sit around all day long with an orange crayon and draw circles on Big Cheif tablets. LONG LIVE THE GERMAN GIANT!!!

3/29/2006 6:35:54 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

That's too funny, Russ. The more I get into this the bigger the smile on my face gets just when thinking of some peoples' stupidity!
And just for the heck of it (I had nothing better to do...LOL) I also posted a few more pictures of the stem and blossom ends of the pumpkins (August 17th entries).
BTW, anyone know what the longest thread on the seed exchange board is? I think with the weigh guess contest last fall we set a record for the general discussion board, now let’s go for it here!

3/29/2006 6:42:08 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Martin,
I'm glad you have a sense of humor. You are keeping your composure quite well under the circumstances. That's another plus in your favor IMO.

3/29/2006 7:20:20 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

I can't let this one slide without opening my big mouth. Pumpkinbrat, the good Lord has a lot more important things to worry about than Martin, big orange pumpkins, and a bunch of grumpy old men waking up from their winter hybernation and wishing they were on Mr. Reiss's mailing list! I wonder how many good Christians rolled their eyes over that one!

3/29/2006 9:41:54 PM

Alex, IN

I sure rolled my eyes over that one! LOL

I want to wish everyone a great season!

Only 31 days until my season officially starts! WOOHOO!!

God Bless,
Mikkal

3/29/2006 9:47:18 PM

San Diego

Martin, Thank you for posting your other diary pic's, it is helpful and I appreciate your effort. It is nice to know the 801 pumpkin did exist lol :) I wish you the best this season coming and please don't photoshop anymore! lol, it isn't worth all the hassle.

3/29/2006 9:58:08 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

OK you guys and gals Bryson got his seed, so can we stop this thread now. Man. the your man is 12 years old, I bet he never posts for a seed again, for fear something else might happen!!!!!!!!

3/29/2006 10:10:43 PM

Decatur, IL

I think everyone who thought that the 1008.4 and the 1233.5 were the same fruit owe Martin an apology. I for one got caught up in this whole brouhaha and started to have my doubts. Thank you Martin for clearing things up with the new posts in your 2005 diary. So, for myself, I'm sorry that I briefly had some doubts as to the authenticity of your two beauts. I know we don't deserve your forgiveness. Charlie

3/29/2006 10:47:36 PM

Sioux Falls, SD garyboer@dakotalink.com

Martin
Everyone still wants your seeds
Everyone still will plant your seeds
You are still the "Orangemeister"

3/29/2006 10:54:25 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I am glad I am not on the list to recieve the 1233.5 seed. Talking to a few of the heavy hitters, they said they grow every year to have the chance of get a world record. Also the chance of getting in the top three of a weigh off. So why would you plant a seed that has been miss lead with different twist in the whole story about the 1233.5. Fake photo's,altered pictures, lying about the weighing, new story about the camera, and on and on and on. True the average guy would grow it because it is orange. But for a grow to plant it and hoping to have a great seed down the road, likely wouldn't plant it. If someone sent me one, I'd probably would throw it in the trash can...

3/29/2006 11:13:03 PM

No Place Special

Watch what you say brat. I bet there are a few over 1000 grown on the 1233 this year! Its going in my patch and I expect to take it over 1000 lbs. Yes its going in a true competition spot.

3/29/2006 11:29:37 PM

Barrington N.S. Canada

Martin, Good Luck with that 1354 Checkon and will be looking for a couple of seeds from it. Also I still say your 1233.5 is the best looking pumpkin I have seen. Should recieve your seeds soon. Thanks, John Porter.

3/29/2006 11:30:08 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

Hey Brat
What about all of us growers that will never be in contention for a weigh off win. How about the growers that want to grow a beauty of a pumpkin for the smiles you'll get from the neighborhood kids. How about the pleasure to go out and see a beautiful pumpkin.
Please don't throw those seeds away, I'll send you a bubble pack.
I actually think you made a mistake in the last post you made. You had one of them moments when you typed the reponse without thinking about it first. Pretty harsh,

3/30/2006 12:56:25 AM

Syracuse, NY

ahhh, on a brighter note:

lol at huffs
pumpkins:
"Just something to think about & if anyone is unsure about using his seeds after you get them just send them to Bryson Ensign, because he seems to want to have one."
yeah, me, too! i hope i get a couple 1233.5s soon, and maybe a 1008.x as well---i admire PumpkinBrat for having strived to seek out the truth, and i respect Martin in my
fullest capacity as well. i just hope we have all (re-)learned the Golden Rule:
never, ever mislead the Pumpkin-Growing Public.
i have not read ALL of the above 2,000 posts, but that is my take on it. eric

3/30/2006 2:25:56 AM

Dorval,Quebec

This topic really brings out a few characteristics of AG growers - energy, drive and attention to detail.

3/30/2006 7:02:58 AM

Knopp, Germany

Unfortunately, I am going to make one more post. This is a cut from an e-mail:

Hi Xxxxxx,

I am not mad at you at all. I can't speak for Martin.

Yes, if that picture that you sent me is one that Martin posted, I agree it has been manipulated. However, as I stated on the thread, I will not discuss the manipulations. That is for Martin to do.

(cont.)

3/30/2006 8:33:21 AM

Knopp, Germany

Funny, at the very beginning of this controversy last October, I received a few emails from people questioning the 1233.5. I never said that I could verify the authenticity of it, but, I know of a grower, that I have known since 2002, that was at the weighing. He has nothing to gain from this at all. Totally un-biased. I also cannot believe that Martin would intentionally try to fake a pumpkin the size of the 1233.5, that is something I can not fathom. Why is this funny? Because of all of this evidence that now, in March, 6 months later, is coming out. Why did it take so long? I mean, people emailed me without all this proof, and now, with all this proof, no one asks me anything.

Are there more photos like this that I should be aware of? Is there anything at all that I should be aware of? Am I next because of my outspoken support of Martin?

I grow for fun. Sure, I enjoy the competition, but I do not grow to win, I grow for the fun of it. It is not your fault Xxxxxx, not even the fault of the people that are bashing Martin right now, but very slowly, this is not fun anymore.

I am sorry Xxxxx, I will not talk to Martin about this. I believe that he knows what is best for himself, I certainly know what is best for me....and that is to back as far away from this whole situation as I can.

I am going to make one more post on bigpumpkins.com, and then I am going to lurk. I enjoy the website very much, and I have gained so much knowledge and friendship from it, but as I have said, this is not fun anymore.

If you have anymore questions, or anything at all, feel free to email me.

Regards,
owen



Grow em big.
have fun,
owen

3/30/2006 8:33:36 AM

Wood River, IL (kennyw_49@yahoo.com)

If any of you guy that have a 1233.5 or any other Reiss seeds. Are so upset with all this that you could bring yourself to plant them, and your going to throwing them away? DON'T I'll send you a BP today to take them off your hands. I'm a new first year grower that would love to plant that seeds.

3/30/2006 9:15:26 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Hi Xxxxx,

The other images that I was privy to went away when I turned my old laptop back to my prior employer who leased it for my use. There have been images lately but they aren’t incriminating to my eye. These have sought to point out the similar appearance of the 2 fruit. They did bear a striking resemblance but like you, I don’t believe Martin would lie about so important a matter as this.

I also grow for fun & merely enjoy the competitive spirit. Here at home I can never grow a record fruit (Virus & space constraints). But this doesn’t detract from the other things I get out of growing.

You are right. This is Martin’s responsibility. But I don’t like seeing so much animosity & want to see it go away. Hence I stick my nose where it doesn’t belong. If I make another post to that thread it will probably be to recluse myself from future involvement. Nothing will keep me from BigPumpkins whether looking for help myself or contributing what I have to share.

You should not be the target of anyone’s abuses & if you are I will steadfastly support you. Maybe that other grower will make a statement on Martin’s behalf. I hope he does.

For the record: There is an agitator in Europe who has criticized Martin’s 1233 on BP. It is possible that this person is jealous & has sought to feed the fire. But I am only speculating about this. I do not recall the name but the European boards had some sharp comments last fall that were directed toward Martin’s handling of the situation.

continued

3/30/2006 9:47:52 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Why the Americans have suddenly started speaking on the matter eludes me. If I were to guess, since the 1233 seeds are about to arrive here, I’d say that they want other growers to understand the seed has a question attached & they don’t want to see their growing efforts likewise questioned. Giant Pumpkin clubs hold meetings in the off-season. With no one growing right now, some of these become social events with all manner of gossip. I therefore no longer attend the “dinner meetings” but instead focus myself on the business & Committee responsibilities of our club. This is where I can make the greatest positive impact on our hobby/sport. Nothing good ever comes of gossip that I have seen.

So you & I will continue to grow for fun & imagine that some day we might get lucky with an improved circumstance that might permit a record. In the meanwhile I will continue to offer what I can so that others may also progress in their own ways.

Grow well my friend!

Steve

3/30/2006 9:48:08 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I'm finished with this thread. My opinion is just that: an opinion. Everybody has one.

If anyone thinks I am changing colors consider this: After some more looking at pictures & soul searching I don't believe it is in Martin's character to lie about this matter. Embelishment of a photograph isn't cheating. It's more like a woman wearing makeup or a man using lifts.

Unless Martin can document the 1233 otherwise, probably the best thing that can happen now is for folks to call it the 1233 Reiss '05 UOW, grow it to a respectable weight & have fun doing it.

3/30/2006 9:58:13 AM

Mocksville, NC

Woah! took a while to get to the bottom of this post.
I was working the patches, To get my soil in the best shape i can this year, hopeing for a personal best this year. Going to give a 100% good soil ,good seed, good luck to all, i have a good collection of seeds , and antisapate the Reiss seeds to be included. Well its spring, and time to get cracking, because its growing time GUY'S,AND GALS.
Rog.

3/30/2006 12:21:24 PM

Napa Valley, CA

There is much to digest on this thread and having read through it twice, I now have a headache.
I think the bottom line is, you either believe Martin or you don't.

In dealing with Martin the past few years I have always found him to be an honest person and therefore believe he is being truthful.

If the 1233.5 fit my growing plans this year, I would plant it without hesitation.

3/30/2006 12:39:19 PM

Covington, WA

Isn't it spring yet? You all should be out prepping your patch rather than wasting time on this discussion when it started as a simple seed request. Hey Johnny Pumpkinseed, did you get an answer yet? Good Luck. (No, I don't have any, didn't request any, have more seeds than I could plant in 3 lifetimes.)

3/30/2006 1:51:12 PM

ordinary,VA

just put some kelp down patch looking good!
geow'em big.

3/30/2006 3:42:41 PM

ordinary,VA

grow'em big dag i cant evn psell

3/30/2006 3:49:13 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Anxiously awaiting arrival of the 1233.5 Reiss seed. Time will tell...this seed will be planted enough this year, come Oct. we will know. I have asked questions about this seed this year, been accused of stirring the pot for asking those questions!!! At this point in time, this nu-B trusts authenticity of genetics and will expect a new PB from this seed. Not sure about Europe, but in the good ole'USA...the law says...inocent until proven guilty! Grow 'em big...everybody.... Peace, Wayne
PS Steve, thanks for your input...a level headed, friendship based, non-(oh, what is the word I want) contacted, impacted, ...retracted, extracted, suspected, detected, expected.....and so on...

3/30/2006 8:49:13 PM

Hudsonville, Michigan (michiganpumpkins@sbcglobal.net)

Did anyone notice that if you look carefully at background of the pictures in Martin's diary, you can see a second shooter on the grassy knoll?!?
All this talk of Photoshopping pictures is making me laugh. Martin is either an exquisitely skilled PhotoShop expert, or just a great grower. I'm guessing by the hastily composited scale shot, it ain't the former, folks.
It's just not as easy as a click of the mesh button. Making 'em look seemless would be quite a time consuming undertaking. PhotoShop does work wonders but I just don't see enough retouching in the diary to question a man's integrity.
But America sure loves a conspiracy theory...so if you must, keep looking for that second shooter. Or was that Area 51 in the background? :)

3/30/2006 10:30:21 PM

Ohio

Ill be a man and admit I was wrong on it being the same pumpkin but that wasnt the main question that was asked here,The main question was did it really weigh 1233 and how come no pictures or witnesses or some kind of proof it was even on a scale. It seemed the camera worked fine to take a bottom shot of the pumpkin and a slit mark on half of the pumpkin and even a little chunk of the walls being measured, but no full pictures of it after it was suppose to be weighed.some people want to see it Martin,all of it,not just half shots and Pieces of it,this is what I would like to see,this is what people think is fishy,after all this was the main thing this thread was hijacked about right?

Brooks

3/30/2006 11:25:03 PM

Hudsonville, Michigan (michiganpumpkins@sbcglobal.net)

Brooks: I agree, that part of it is an open question. For me, Martin's word is good enough on that, though obviously some feel otherwise. But, hey, ultimately all he's missing is the 'sound pumpkin on the scale' shot. We all have a lot of seeds from a lot of growers with far less documentation than what Martin has made available in his diary. i.e. Has anyone ever seen Bill Bobier's diary & photos of the 723 in the patch? I don't think pictures of the 723 in the patch or on a scale exist...maybe they do...but my point is that, with or without the pictures, I take Bill's word on that.
For anyone that questions the soundness of the 1233 or authenticity of the weighing / scale, slap it with a 'uow' designation. It's still a heck of a fruit with a heck of a cross in my book.
Frank

3/31/2006 7:23:08 AM

No Place Special

The 1233 will prove (or not) itself this year. Lets just drop it and wait and see what it does. I bet it produces some monster orange beasts!!! Honestly I dont care what it weighed, if it was real, if it was split, if it was damaged or any of that. All that I really care about is how the seed produces. Remember the 21 Beachy. Its all about genetics my friends. As long as the cross is true, and id bet my house that it is, who really cares what exactly the 1233 was. I dont give a hoot if it was really the 233 Reise. I say those who have serious questions about it just dont grow it. The concerns with the 1233 have been made very public. Let everyone (including Martin) alone to do as they want with the 1233......

3/31/2006 10:09:18 AM

No Place Special

Martin has done everything he can to prove its real, there is nothing else he could do. All I know is that I feel VERY sorry for him if this is all for nothing. Think how YOU would feel if you were telling the truth and this kind of thing hit you square in the face. Come on guys, remember innocent until proven guilty. This guy really went all out growing last year and made some huge improvements (1008 is proven real) so why is it so had to think he couldnt grow one to 1233 lbs. Ok yes he altered some pictures a little to show off his pumpkins.... SO WHAT! I often take SEVERAL pictures and pic the best looking one. What he did isnt much of a stretch beyond this. I will admit that when this situation first came to light I had my questions as well. I have been in close contact with martin for some time with emails, trades and such. Heck I even spoke with him on the phone not long before he weighed the 1233. Thinking back now I remember talking about his indicator clock and how it was almost done growing and such. The depth of the conversation and the details we spoke of, I dont believe could have been made up about a FAKE fruit. Martin is a very impressive and smart young man. I mean look at his emails and posts. His english is better than mine. He speaks english extremely well. Anyhow.... Im rambling now. Martin, I believe you 100% and I feel you dont owe anyone anything. Dont dignify their questions anymore with a reply. You have done all you can do bud. Its tough bud but hold that chin up and grow a 1500 lber this year! I know you can do it. Just remember Martin, MOST people are good but there are always bad eggs. You know the truth and thats all that matters.... Mr. Europe record holder you! Mike Frantz

3/31/2006 10:27:06 AM

Southern Sweden

Martin, we seem to be in similar boats! They don't count in my pumpkins either. When I read about the 1420 LaRue and how many 1000 lb pumpkins it produced in 2005, they never mention my pumpkin; the 1061 Gustavsson 05 uow dmg. It's the same with my 1000 Gustavsson 03. I have no account to the AGGC-site, but I don't think they mention my pumpkins there either. In my case I don't really care, because I grow mainly for myself, and I've never visited any pumkin competition and I have no intention of doing so either. So in my case I can just say; "Believe it (me and my scales) or not!"
Soon (very soon) I will file and soak your seed, so Martin, let's start growing and show'em!

3/31/2006 1:47:22 PM

Ohio

Why do people want details? Because it was a RECORD. if this pumpkin was never claimed to be a record and weighed 1000 lbs no one would care. If Larry Checkon claimed the world record with no pics of the 1469 how many people would want proof, pics, or some kind of documention of it? Im guessing just about every pumpkin grower that grows pumpkins wants to see atleast a picture of it or something right? Why? because its a record, if your going to claim a record you have to atleast know that you have to have something to back it with,like some kind of proof.If this type documentation was never needed then everyone would be claiming a record and we wouldnt know what was true or what wasnt. If weight didnt matter on this pumpkin then why claim a record? I dont get it? But I think all will be settled once Martin scans his pictures that he took with his 35 mm camera at weigh in.

This is my opinion and everyone has them, and Im sorry if you dont like it.

Grow em big everyone,

Brooks

3/31/2006 3:01:59 PM

Maine

Big Foot is Real

Aliens do exist

so why cant the 1233 be real

3/31/2006 3:26:31 PM

Knopp, Germany

I hope you find peace Brooks, you are a good guy, we may not see eye to eye, but I know you are a good guy.

I respect your opinion.

Best wishes this year.
owen

3/31/2006 3:30:35 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

I'm Sorry but I agree with Brooks on this. In his diary he states the current record and the fact he has a pumpkin that estimates over the record. Then he states he will have a Notary and witnesses. As a european grower or the holder of the official record I would think you to would want this proof.

3/31/2006 3:52:18 PM

Ohio

Owen, to be honest,I really wish I had never posted on this thread,I thought it would be the right thing to do to get what I had on my mind out in the open,but I can tell you, now that I done it, I realize I should have kept my opinion to myself. Its not a good feeling at all. Im also done posting about this subject for good.

Brooks

3/31/2006 4:36:19 PM

Massachusetts

Sorry..... But if I'm going to list my pumpkin on the A.G.G.C. as "This pumpkin is a new German record, a new European Record and the biggest pumpkin ever grown outside North America" I'd better have some proof... Period! I also am done with this tread......... Steve

3/31/2006 5:39:41 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I think all of us would of NEVER question anything about this 1233.5 of Mr. Reiss, If he would had been up front and honest about "everything" from the start. If it's for real, who really cares anymore. Friends will back friends as a rule in life. But if none of us ever really knew Martin, we all would say the 1233.5 is a fake. Myself, if I thought I had a world,state or country record, I'd have friends, family and the local TV news and local paper in my back yard. Plus I know many of them would bring there camera's. I would grow this pumpkin if there wasn't many questions as to if it's for real or not. But because of this tread and what has been said, I'd never grow it. Every gower want to be sure that they have a good pollination from the male the picked to pollinate the female. Same as, every grower wants to be sure they are planting a seed that is as what it says on the little yellow envelope they got from the grower or a seed swap.

3/31/2006 7:55:33 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

I'm also with Brooks and Steve....I believe it existed, and the cross is probably true to form, BUT, you don't call/claim a pumpkin "a new German record, a new European Record and the biggest pumpkin ever grown outside North America" without undeniable proof in proper pictures, paperwork, and credible witnesses (including the general public) that will come forth in your defense.
As Brook said, there was a pic of a cut, a wedge, the scales reading (if I remember correctly), but a FAKE as the pic of the supposed pumpkin on the scales...that makes absolutely no sense. If he could take a pic of those, he could have a pic of the legit fruit on the legit scales, no excuses there. I believe the weight was exaggerated/fabricated until we see proof positive with REAL pics, notary.
No European record, no 1233 weight as far as myself and alot of other folks concerned.
No bad feelings towards Martin here, he's a good guy as I've seen in my dealings with him the last few years, BUT, any grower has to validate a *record*, no matter who you are.
I too chime out on this matter, just my opinion which is just as credible as anyone elses's.
Good luck in 2006 to all.

4/1/2006 7:26:48 AM

Southern Sweden

Dr.Greenthumb, some say that we've not been on the moon. Hmmm...

4/1/2006 1:16:07 PM

Vancouver, White Rock, Canada

This entire thread is pathetic.

4/1/2006 1:59:13 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Mr. Gust...once, back in the early 70's, I played some Led Zepplin, backwards...at 78 speed, and am pretty sure I was on the moon.... Peace, Wayne

4/1/2006 10:25:52 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Wow, I hope some of you never get called for jury duty.

4/2/2006 3:31:06 AM

ordinary,VA

lol @ north shore boyz..:)
Wayne was that ZepIV or houses of the holy lp?

4/2/2006 9:35:59 AM

Ri

physical graffiti

4/2/2006 2:56:47 PM

Mn

I read as much as i could stand. Maybe someone posted something here thatIhave not read that proves the 1233 real. Johny i recomend you repost to get a hold of the seed you are looking for. Anybody herd of "Acums Razor" (not sure on the spelling) It is is a scientific term used to prove a likely possibility (wich is a more probable answer to a question)to a question. So wich is more like likely? A man goes through the time and expense to docter a photo (that to any person can be clearly seen as doctored)to make a pumpkin look orange and to make it look like it was weighed on a scale. OR A man grows an giganic pumpkin and His camera fails to record any pictures. I personally believe the last idea is true.

One more thing. Do we know pumpkins can be incredibly orange? Yes. tHEY can be.

Do we know they can be grown over a 1000 pounds and be incredibly orange? Yes or No? Yes look at the 1101 Northrup.

Do we knowthey can be incredibly orange and grown over 1200 pounds? Yes Or No? Yes. The 1262 emmons(witch by the way was a cerified world recod)was a great color and shape.

From any outsiders point of view this is a insane argument and we should all be institutionalized.

I personally DO NOT CARE,WHAT SO EVER, if the 1233 was real or not. I looked at the pumpkin pictures and saw it was a great color and thought"hey that would be a great seed to grow." Weather it was small or big the genetics are there. Even if it were to be grown and turns out to be ugly, grouse, and not a pumpkin who cares. All is not lost except mony if you paid for it or a seed you traded for it. So you lost some mony or a good seed. WHO CARES. There will be many great seeds out there and if you work a little harder you will get that mony back.





This bost is kind of nuetral/defending martin post. Ken Lets stop this descusion.

4/2/2006 3:12:26 PM

Mn

dissregard the prvios post.

4/2/2006 3:51:41 PM

Mn

I take people on there word i guess. martin as i can tell is a nce guy and can be trusted.

4/2/2006 3:57:07 PM

SF Bay Area, California

I just had to post.... 6 more and we hit 150 posts on this thread. I have two aupairs from Germany here helping with my kids. They both swear they never heard of Martin but they would like to meet him.... and (this is a true story -april 1 was yesterday) right now, they are shopping for a digital camera on eBay! The world's largest fencing operation for stolen goods and fake giant pumpkin seeds....

4/2/2006 7:59:06 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Maybe Martin really did grow to beautiful orange pumpkins to please as all. But just maybe the 1233.5 really weighed somewhere around 700 - 800 that's why there is no certified scales and the photo was doctored

4/2/2006 9:15:13 PM

Ontario

Even if there was a photo, still no witnesses to judge if fruit were sound, along with no certified scales and early weigh in just thrown in for good measure. Too many what if's too be a record. Photo would prove nothing. Over here growers wouldn't even think to call it a record without proper documentation.Like pumpkinbrat says maybe it was a nice orange pumpkin, the 1008 would be a German record but not a European record.

drew

4/2/2006 9:50:39 PM

Napa Valley, CA

Hello Chinese growers.....are you out there ? .......I think we've heard from everyone but you....

4/3/2006 10:48:39 AM

Southern Sweden

More problems to solve: How to know and proof that the genetic background of a seed is correct. Impossible or...? As I see it; we have only to "believe" in a mans word (or not).

4/3/2006 11:08:37 AM

Southern Sweden

We also have to “trust” those who certfy the scale and also the wittnesses. My inputs is no defence of Martin and his pumpkin, just free thinking, because I don’t know the truth either.

4/3/2006 12:46:19 PM

Southern Sweden

Now I've done it, I've just now filed and soaked one 1233,5 seed. I couldn't wait any longer. Soon we will know a little bit more about this seed.

4/3/2006 1:51:08 PM

SF Bay Area, California

Damnit, I missed 150.... Those northern europeans are such glory hogs!

4/3/2006 2:05:37 PM

Netherlands

Okay, the biggest pumpkin ever grown in Europe was the 1233.5. The heaviest official pumpkin weighed at a weighoff with witnesses is the 1068 Boonen 05 from Belgium.

In my list of Europe's heaviest pumpkins the top three are:
1233.5 Reiss 05 (suow) * semi-unofficial weight
1068 Boonen 05
1061 Gustavsson 05 (uow dmg)

* suow - this is a proposed name for all pumpkins weighed on certified weigh scales with the wrong witnesses, the wrong cameras, the wrong notaries or wrong whatever.

I also suggest "pdmg" for all pumpkins that are too big to be true, where the pictures are possibly altered and the pumpkin is therefore "possibly damaged".

That would leave us with "pest". This meaning "probably estimated".

4/3/2006 2:23:26 PM

Esneux / Liège / BELGIUM

It's a great thing to list other growers's success.
It's a better thing to grow, and have something to be listed at the end of the season...

4/3/2006 3:14:24 PM

Itzetown City

Since I've heard about thus "white dwarfs" (Pumpkins filled with concrete)I suggest to use ultrasound scan at the weigh off.

4/3/2006 4:22:04 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I guess it's true when they say that a blind man can see better and understand things better then the average human.

4/3/2006 5:11:09 PM

Pembroke, New Hampshire

I've tried ultrasounding pumpkins. It doesn't work. The frequency works on animal skin ony. If you know a techie from an U/S company who's will to work on this problem, I'd love to know. Until then, we have to rely on CT scans and MRI scans, assuming you can get it onto the table and it fits into the tunnel.
I, for one, still recognize Martin's pumpkin as the largest in Europe. This hobbie still relies on a man's word, and that's good enough for me.

4/3/2006 5:11:47 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

I just had to write to make sure a day didn't go by without a post on this thread. Wouldn't that have been awful!
11 days and counting...
Must be a pretty important thread. I wish I had time to read some of it to find out what it's all about. Probably something about the next great secret to growing a 1500lber. I'm hoping my hard work in the patch and less time at my keyboard will lead me in that direction. That and my secret seed...
OK, cats out of the bag...I'm going with a totally unproven seed from last year...the 1233.5 Reiss '05! Any of you heard of it? What do you think? BF
PS. It really doesn't matter what you think. My patch, my decision. Oh yeah...and my record!
NEXT

4/5/2006 1:49:46 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

10:49 pm 4/4/2006 PST :)

4/5/2006 1:51:56 AM

ordinary,VA

what if the 1233 grows green?

4/5/2006 5:27:09 PM

Itzetown City

This can only happend if you plant the seed in an ice-cream-pot where former woodruff-ice were in.

4/5/2006 5:37:04 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Did I ever come clean & admit that I spray painted a white giant with Jacobson orange tractor paint?

There....I'm out of the closet & will sleep well tonight.....then again.....

4/5/2006 7:30:52 PM

Germany

lol much more than 1233 is possible in Germany!!! like u all have seen this year!

10/15/2008 9:59:09 AM