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Knopp, Germany

i am sick an tired of growers saying they will only give you seeds if you will put them in the ground.

yes, it is true, even HH's started out collecting all they could get, the difference was we were not so a wide open hobby as now. but if you read from a HH, only given to growers that will grow then i ask them...

none of them started that way(would love to see your seed lists), none of them will have enough room for 2007 seeds.

some of them can get any seed they want when they want it (grow an AG over 1500 and you can too).

collect seeds as you wish, share them as you want, just do not sell them, that is a cardinal rule.

be nice, share our seeds and never forget this is a hobby, money is the killer.......

11/26/2007 11:49:49 AM

Knopp, Germany

when i stated "we" i never meant to say i am a HH, i spend hundreds of dollars every year on seeds that i give to others.

11/26/2007 11:52:03 AM

Dillsburg, PA

Maybe a low seed count and wants to be selective in giving the few seeds he has to growers really interested?

11/26/2007 12:12:50 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I agree with you on the money part. It would be good to keep "big money" out of seeds, and if that means less money for clubs and less money for prizes, even better.

I do understand the notion of low seed count and wanting some seeds to see dirt... some growers send out virtually all of their unproven seeds and then they're never grown by anyone. Other growers of less well known background struggle to get any interest in their crosses. It's a difficult problem.

I've often thought that an Ebay style model of seed distribution, with an initial price set simply to cover packaging and postage would be a good way to get seeds into the right hands. Certain promising crosses might go for $5.00 or $10.00. Some seeds would go for around $2.00, but then we all save by not paying postage to mail bubble packs around. That's really all that needs to happen. If a person is willing to pay $5.00 for an unproven seed, perhaps they're willing to "put their money where their mouth is" and actually plant it.

Then the clubs would still have a market for "proven" seeds, for those who want to go that route.

Like I say, I don't purport to have all the answers. As I re-read this, did I keep the money out or not?

11/26/2007 4:38:30 PM

Waquoit Mass

low seed counts,hundreds of requests , new clubs have put quite a damper on the the seed trading in recent years.but i must say ron wallace told me of the hours he spent last year stuffin seeds to hundreds of growers so you can still get em .when i first started there were only a hundred serious growers so tradin was a breeze. you missed it owen hamr

11/26/2007 5:07:46 PM

Ohio

I have sent out every 1402 and 1298 I grew this year,(clubs,Dills, promos, bubbles,, ext). I kept 20 each for myself, they might not see dirt but atleast there are out there somewhere getting looked at, theres alot less of a chance they see anything sitting in a jar in my basement. Cant get em grown if you dont send em out I always say. I see what your saying Owen, sometimes you do plan on growing that seed but then you change your mind on growing something eles, it just happens, and I bet it happens alot.

11/26/2007 5:56:27 PM

Mt Vernon Ky

yes what brooks said its hard to make your mind when you dont have much of one like me

11/26/2007 8:53:53 PM

Pinedale, WY

Just a question, but why does a person need to have several hundred seeds stock piled? Is it like any collecting hobby, the fun is in collecting and having a great variety? Or is it just hoarding?

11/26/2007 10:35:07 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I think that most of us don't really intend to stockpile. If you only trade with five people a year, those seeds can add up pretty fast. What happens is, you say, "Hey, I'd like to grow that 900 pounder you had last year!" And then that grower sends you seeds from their 900 pounder, as well as their 1000 pounder, the 800, 700, 600, and 500 pounder. So you end up with 5 or 6 seed packets from every trade. It's OK. In the end you end up starting the 900 pounder and give that a 50/50 chance of actually being grown to maturity (I always double-plant).

If each of us is producing 300 seeds on average for every seed we plant, there will always be enough seeds.

11/26/2007 10:56:08 PM

I think Cliff and Dave touched on it a little bit. I know a local grower who indicated he received over 600 bubble packs/seed requests a couple years ago.

Assuming all the heavy hitters had stellar seed counts every year, say 750 per fruit, by the time they donate a 200 to the various clubs to which they belong, another 50 or so to each of the folks with whom they have been trading for years, that leaves them 100 seeds short for the 600 other folks requesting the "latest and greatest" seeds.

I don't think most these guys want to stockpile their own seeds; I think it's just the opposite. The heavy hitters don't want OTHER people stockpiling their seeds just to have a seed packet that says "2655 Hester 2008” sitting in a seed room collecting dust. They want their seeds to see dirt. We all do.

My seed counts were so low last year I resorted to random draws on various seed packs, sending everyone with whom I trade 5 seeds, even though I had pulled seeds from 13 different fruit.

(continued below)

11/26/2007 11:53:05 PM

Luckily, no one was champing at the bit for any of my seeds last year, so I didn't worry about my random distribution technique. But for a heavy hitter, you know people will be requesting certain seeds.

If the HH's did a random draw like me, they would be disappointing folks who actually WOULD HAVE planted a particular seed, whilst sending the “right” seed to the “wrong” grower who has no intention of doing anything but staring at the 2655 Hester seed pack on the mantle.

I think that pretty much however a heavy hitter slices it, they're going to end up bending some folks out of shape.

Folks who perform mediation (settling legal claims or labor disputes, for example) say that they know they're doing a good job when both sides walk away from the negotiating table equally unhappy. I suspect that is, in effect, what we are asking of heavy hitters when we send them bubble packs along with a thousand other folks. "Please make us all equally unhappy."

Here’s hoping they continue to do so.

11/26/2007 11:53:25 PM

Pinedale, WY

As soon as you get one of those 2655 Hester, I would be willing to plant one! lol

11/27/2007 3:47:18 AM

Wood River, IL (kennyw_49@yahoo.com)

Vic, Don't fell bad,I'm right there with you.lol

There are alot of great points on this posting. I agree Owen.

I've had 2 growers (of 600-700 lbs) this fall tell me they'd only send me the seeds I ask about if I promised to grow it. If I every grow a huge one I'll do it the way Brooks did, because like he said the seeds won't seed dirt in a jar in my basement.

Kenny

11/27/2007 6:34:26 AM

Ontario

I'm not saying I'm a heavy hitter. But when you get a lot of requests you have to try and come up with ideas that will increase the chance of your seeds seeing dirt. When we grew the 1373 back in 2003 I think maybe 5 saw dirt. So when you have too many bubbles and not enough seeds you have to try to please everyone. By stating you will only hand out to growers that will plant them then you don't receive as many reuests thus satisfying the majority of growers. Best way for your seeds to see dirt is to grow one yourself and hopefully pop a big one. If you have3 limited patch size then you have to come up with new ideas. Thats why I started a contest this year. Don't know if it will work but will see. I know of one HH that gave all his seeds away and when they became hot he didn't have any to plant. So its not a bad idea to try to limit your requests. I understand what your saying Owen and its frustrating but if you have a better idea?

drew

11/27/2007 2:42:32 PM

Minnesota

I think the grower should be as picky as he or she wants to be, the right to offer or refuse. I'm sure some of the heavy hitters get tired of constant request from there prize winning pumpkins. I know I have viewed diarys and asked for seeds from the grower simply because I thought "dam, thats a nice looking pumpkin, it has everything, looks, genetics". Maybe we should all support the orange angel foundation, a few dollars from every club every year?

11/27/2007 4:27:40 PM

Ohio

Drew, I think your right on giving to many seeds out and cutting yourself short if that seed happens to prove itself. Hopefully if that happens with one of my seeds Ill just have to trade a seed to get my own seed back to grow,lol!!! I know of a few growers that have had to ask other growers for the own seed so they could be able to grow it. I think growers like this wont have a problem finding there own seed to grow even if they happen to run out.

11/27/2007 5:03:20 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

One thing we need to do is have the faith to plant our own seeds. For example, I have a really good feeling about my own 604. But I also realize that nobody else will be as convinced about it as I am... I saw the mother and the pollinator plant grow and know that they are something special. If we're fortunate enough to have the space for more than two plants, we ought to include some of our own seeds.

11/27/2007 5:53:44 PM

Jericho Vermont

I think alot of times we all get caught up in good marketing and name recognition. And rest assure I don't feel that anyone is doing this intentionally, especially the growers that have been successful. We seem to feel there are only 10 good seeds out there and if we don't get a hold of one of them our season is ruined. In my opinion there are literally 100's of spectacular crosses out there for the taking. As long as you can trust that the grower made a true protected cross and that the seeds crossed were ligitimate.
If a grower can not share his seeds for any number of reasons thats ok. Lately there have been a number of large pumpkins with little or no seed count.(This is a continued conversation I would like to see more of) This hobby is booming and we all need to be understanding no matter what side of the fence we are on.

John

11/27/2007 6:00:52 PM

Knopp, Germany

I have been receiving some interesting e-mails the last few days. Some from frustrated new growers, some from angry (at me) experienced growers, and some looking for clarification. So, here is the best I can do to clarify, it is from a response I gave to one of the emails:

No I was not referring to you or anyone in particular. And I do understand special circumstances, like low seed count.

When I first started asking for seeds, I was able to get them from almost anyone, as long as I sent a SASBP, a nice note, and the promise to consider growing their seeds.

The last two years I have given away hundreds of those seeds to new growers, mostly here in Europe. Those seeds did make it into the soil. Those growers can't get seeds like that anymore because of everyone telling them they must grow them, or they can not have them. It is a good thing for them that I did not have that problem a few years ago.

I guess that the good old days are exactly that, even in our "hobby". I will continue to uphold the tradition that I learned at bp.com, from many wonderful, nice people and give away my seeds freely.

Another note, each year I participate in at least 2-3 auctions, and have freely sent money orders for those seeds, typically into the hundreds of dollars. I do that to support the organizations out there, not because I always intend on growing those seeds. I have given away more seeds that I bid on then I want to remember.

Okay, I am off my soap box now.

11/28/2007 1:27:23 AM

Webster, NY

Maybe I'm just lucky, but the folks that I've asked seeds of have never refused me or made stipulations. I really would have to say the folks around here are some of the most generous I've seen.

11/28/2007 4:25:22 AM

Mocksville, NC

Owen,

Thank you! I was one of hundreds i bet that you unselfishly gave to: This is for you, and all!

Happiness held is the seed
Happiness shared is the flower

I found this plaque in my Pumpkin shed yesterday thank you
Mr Owen Olsen. Roger

11/28/2007 5:18:10 PM

Leicester, NY

Owen,
I think the key point to keep in mind with the sow them and grow them scenario or you don't get them is the grower is not saying no, you can’t have that seed. Rather,they’re saying I’ll give you one, just grow the thing..that’s what the person gifting the seed wants most. Seems like that method would work, unless one just wants to collect seeds or perhaps just trade them. I would say most HH’s get between 200-300 bubbles a year. If they have a pumpkin with 300 seeds, they have a shortage to deal with. It's hard to keep everyone happy. The other way of doing it would be to go ahead, hand out all your seeds until they’re gone. The problem with that is, if one of those seeds grows a world class size fruit, you’ll have to tell about 100 growers no, I’m all out. That seems to get people a bit riled too, so I’m not sure what the best way to go is. The good news is there are 100's of great seeds out there capable of growing giant fruit. Often, my most successful pumpkins have come from the so called unproven stock. If you can't get the seed you want, there's a good chance the 2nd and 3rd choices will do just as well or better.

11/28/2007 6:03:45 PM