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Southern Illinois

I POSTED THIS LAST WEEK BUT NO BODY GAVE ME A GOOD ANSWER,I HAVE SOME 845 SIBB SEED AND I HAVE A 845 BOBBIER,HAS ANY ONE EVER GET ANY GOOD RESULTS FROM 845 SIBB X 845 BOBIER,I AM TALKING ABOUT ANY SEED NOT JUST 845 BOBIER,935 SIBB X 935 LlOYD,825.5 SELF X 825.5 SHYMANSKI,805 SIBB X 805 PUKOS,AND ALSO I HAVE 935 SELF SEED FROM 3 DIFFERENT GROWERS,HAS ANY ONE EVER CROSS A 935 SELF FROM ONE GROWER TO ANOTHER 935 SELF FROM A DIFFERENT GROWER,WITH ANY GOOD RESULTS,ANY SEED NOT JUST 935,AND HAS ANY ONE EVER CROSS 935 LlOYD X 935 SIBB WITH ANY SEED AND HAVE ANY GOOD RESULTS,I WOULD IMAGINE I WILL NEVER OWN ANY OF THESE SEED EVER AGAIN SO I WANT TO FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY TO USE THEM,I WILL DO 935 LlOYD X 865 METTLER AS MANY TIMES THAT I CAN,3 ARE 4 FRUIT AS MANY AS I CAN GET TO SET,I HAVE 15 DIFFERENT LlOYD SEED I WILL HIT WITH THE 865 METTLER,HAVE 2 865 AND 1 ON THE WAY,865 X 845 ARE 935 X 845 845 X 935 IT LOOKS GOOD.

1/9/2003 5:52:06 PM

Ontario

pERSONALLY i DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Are you planting a 935 or a offspring of the 935, same goes for the 845, 865. This is probably why no one responded to you last time. Stop naming the crosses and just say what you are planting. For anyone to reply to your post yo must speak the same language. No offense intended.

drew

1/9/2003 6:42:55 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Rick, I love you man but what the hell are you talking about? Dude, you're in your own time zone!
Now please don't be mad at me and call me dirty names or I'll have to leave this site for good :0)

1/9/2003 7:03:45 PM

Southern Illinois

I REALLY DO NOT SEE THE POINT IN THE NAME OF THE PERSON THAT GREW THE SEED BUT,505 SANDVIK IS A 935 SELF,AND THE 935 LlOYD IS THE 935 LlOYD,AND THE 821 GARRELL IS THE 845 SIBB,THE 845 BOBBIER IS THE 845 BOBBIER,I HAVE 3 DIFFERNT GROWERS THAT GREW THE 935 AND SELFED THE SEED WHICH RESULTED IN DIFFERENT SIZE OF FRUIT,BUT THEY ARE 935 SELF SEED,I GUESS I SHOULD SAY THE GROWERS NAME THEN THE CROSS THAT MIGHT WORK BETTER,OK 821 GARRELL X 845 BOBIER HAS ANY ONE EVER CROSS A SEED IN THAT WAY AND HAD GOOD RESULTS,505 SANDVICK X 935 LlOYD.

1/9/2003 7:45:15 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

MUCH better Rick!

1/9/2003 9:24:03 PM

Indiana

havent had time to cross 821 garrell since it was grown in 2002......maybe you should find someone in the southern hemisphere...

Tom Beachy

1/9/2003 11:25:18 PM

Southern Illinois

hello tom,any 845 sibb are self grown from any grower x 845 bobier

1/10/2003 9:07:17 AM

syracuse, ny

okay, what i gather is

"is the result from growing a seed
that is from a selfed or sibbed cross comparable to growing the original" that's what i hope the main question is,
i hope! if not , well....

935----produces MONSTERS!

935 X 935 produces ?????

1/12/2003 1:52:30 AM

syracuse, ny

because(935 X 935) will produce what it will produce.period
935 will produce what it will produce.period
I wanna see the result of (935X935)--pollinated by 935
i think that is "back-crossing"...
--plant that the following spring, and see the result THEN!

1/12/2003 2:01:29 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I hope Joze rings in on this thread....So after successive
multi generational "back crossing", there can then be a cross, which would then exhibit "hybrid vigor". Isn't that one of the possible (desirable) intents? If so, this could be sped up to perhaps as many as 3 gen.'s per year in a southern greenhouse.....

Boy, if only filthy rich...LOL...Fun stuff.

Steve

1/12/2003 9:37:04 AM

Deer Park, WI

The purpose of backcrossing is to reintroduce or reinforce desireable traits into a line that the original seed (P) exhibited. From a hybrid vigor potential standpoint, I believe continued selfing is the best way to purify genes, as opposed to backcrossing. However, if your selfed line is showing some undesireable traits that the (P) generation did not exhibit, then a backcross could be used to "stablize" the line. If Ive dodged your question, lemme know and I'll try again.

1/13/2003 8:50:38 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Joze,

This is Rick's thread, but I think this question goes along with his.

Would it matter if the back crossing is done with male pollen collected from the same plant (self), or another male that is grown from seed obtained from the same pumpkin yet not the same plant (sib)?

My gut tells me that neither scenario guarantees the ideal result, yet either would have the same percentage of liklihood (aka luck) only if the sib seed is collected from the same segment of the same pumpkin. Is that correct?

Or does "luck of the draw genetics" mean that any seed found in any pumpkin could be the same or different enough to have either effect on the progeny?

Could it be that only seeds obtained from the same segment (lobe) should be collected & used for self x self back crossing? If so, we should always segregate seed by segment when removing them & individually name or number, plant, & evaluate each segment for it's own merit evaluation. I think that technically, this is how we should proceed or no valid genetic data will ever be collected, let alone interpretted. If so, then all sibbed seeds are of questionable genetic purity in the truest sense, & might as well be labeled as "open".

Or is the only true back crossing done exclusively with male pollen collected from the exact same plant?

Sorry if I made this more complicated than it could have been, but I'm a stickler for technical clarity. I'm a newbie! LOL

Steve Jepsen

1/13/2003 10:46:48 AM

Long Island,New York

Steve...each lobe of the female pumpkin will eventually produce hundreds of seeds...each seed is the result of an individual egg and an individual pollen grain...all the seeds in a lobe are different. Consider each seed from your pumpkin to be a sister of yours....same mom, same dad,>>but obviously different people with some very similar characteristics. Some growers will pollinate different lobes with different males to get a different cross...sort-of like growing a small pumpkin on a side vine just for seed. They pollinate a separate lobe because you can separate the lobe somewhat from the rest of the pollen and you can collect the seeds separately by removing the whole row(lobe) of seeds when the pkn is open in the fall.But each seed in any pumpkin is the result of a individual egg and an individual pollen grain. There will be differences...and similarities...G

1/13/2003 4:24:40 PM

Western NY

i saved the seeds out of my 785 from last year and 427 from this year by which seperate lobe they came from. i suppose they need to be planted if anything is learned.

Andy

1/13/2003 5:53:11 PM

Deer Park, WI

The only way to perform a backcross with the same original parent (P) is through the pumpkin cloning methods. Lets say you cross a 723 x 845 in 2000. In 2001 you plant the seed from this cross. In order to perform the most pure backcross, you'd have to keep either the 723 or 845 alive throughout the winter and use it's pollen. This type of thing is not common in the crop breeding world as far as i know. The easiest way to do it would be to plant another 723 and 845 and use that pollen. Unfortunately, there is not enough consistency within seeds from the same pumpkin to be 100% you are going to reinforce the desired trait in a backcross. Its a chance one takes and this is where the luck factor comes in.

My opinion on pollinating separate lobes with different pollen sources, in hopes that you can segregate the seeds, is not very favorable. A grower cannot prove that a lobe corresponds to a row of seeds inside a pumpkin. An educated guess is the best one can do. I need to learn more on the subject myself before spouting anymore. For instance, does a 7 lobe pumpkin mean 7 rows of seeds? I guess I havent seen enough fruit to know. Perhaps someone else can chime on this one.

1/14/2003 8:53:20 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

So it's settled then. We were able to chip in $20 each & buy John & Ken a new camera. And they thought they were happy when they got it too. Wait til they see what we're up to new! They're gonna freak! How much will we need to chip in so they can buy us a new Nuclear Gentetic DNA Blueprinting Laboratory & Research Facility?

Any idea what one of them's gonna cost us?

Steve

1/14/2003 1:11:07 PM