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Appalachian Mtns.

FYI...I hate to bring up negative subjects but life ain't always happy, happy, joy, joy and folks need to be aware of the bad apples out there so....
Early in 2003 I traded for an 810 Dill...from whom I don't know for sure because I was sloppy enough at that time to not keep an accurate and detailed record of my trades, swaps, etc. I was so trusting and gung-ho, I just rolled 'em in and rolled 'em out thinking everyone was completely honest out in "Pumpkinland", which was such blind nieve thinking for a grown man, veteran, and father.
I *think* I know where that seed came from but so far I cannot find a written record to back that up, so I keep my mouth shut to avoid hurting someone that may be innocent due to my error.
Well, that 810 Dill turned out to be a fake. How do I know? It grew a 100% green squash for another grower this year that *I* traded it to...and he gave up a helluva good seed to get it.
Soooo....out of courtesy and respect I plan to find that same seed to give back to that grower, or at least and equivalent, but that doesn't change the fact that he wasted a season thinking he had, and used extensively as a pollinator, a seed that wasn't...all because some A-hole that visits this site sent a fake out. How do I know I got it from someone that uses this site? Because I used to trade freely with most everyone here, or I trade with the growers directly...no other two venues.
When it's all said and done now...I'll be out (2) great seed, the other grower wasted a season-is out of a great seed- and is irrevocably scarred and will probably (understandingly so) never trade with me again, my name and reputation (which I strive to keep honest and clean) has been permanently damaged, and for what? It wasn't a HH that did it so your actions cost alot of folks pain and anger, and for what? For a probable 300# pumpkin you grew cause you just "had" to have that seed you wanted and decided to trade a fake for?

11/19/2004 6:22:29 AM

New Hampshire

Another danger of fake seeds is that they can mess up our common gene pool.

11/19/2004 6:50:38 AM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

Kyle
Well, I traded you an 810 Dill back in March of 2003, So it probably came from me.
I receives the 810 Dill from an Auction,(this I can prove) and I know for a fact, the seed I sent you was the seed I received.
I must apologize to Kyle and the grower.
I have an 810 Dill I will gladly give to the grower, I received the seed from the Niagara Seminar Auction.
Tell me who to send it to and i will send it post haste.
I have made a mistake on another trade, that was for the most part semi repaired. I am very careful on storage and documentation since then, a learning curve.
Anyway Kyle, I don't believe I am an A hole.
I am not possitive it was my seed, but I will take responsibility for the seed
If my reputation is tarnished, I can deal with it, but I will never knowingly send out a false seed.
I am just stepping out the door for a 4 day trip to Spokane
So I cannot respond to any Questions until Tuesday.
Sorry
Eddy

11/19/2004 9:21:08 AM

New England

Someone who makes an honest mistake isn't an A-hole. Someone who holds it against them is the A-hole.

11/19/2004 9:29:25 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

YoMamma....The only person that I called/referred to as an A-hole, would be one who knowingly sends out fake seed. Stay out of something you have no internal, first-hand knowledge of.

Eddy...I trust you like a brother, I wish you hadn't posted. I knew I got one from you about that same time, but I know you would never knowingly send out a bad seed...that's why I never contacted you. I was assuming I might have gotten another one somewhere else....sloppy record-keeping I used to have. I can't believe an auction would fall prey to a fake, so I still refuse to believe it came from you. I showed the grower that the 810 has thrown some white/cream clored fruit, but 100% squash is another matter.
The A-hole statement was NOT in reference to you, as I don't think the 810 that I got and gave away, came from you...nor will I in the future think it was the one you sent me because I know how careful you are.

11/20/2004 6:42:20 AM

Spanish Ontario

THIS i can verify about eddy i was with him at niagria when he got those 810 dill,s KEN

11/20/2004 9:31:45 AM

Indiana

Let me look into the background of the 810...it might be possible for green.

tom

11/20/2004 10:00:57 AM

Indiana

ok, here we go. Based on current genetic theory on color inheritance. I think its possible to have green on the 810 Dill. Unprobable, yes.....but impossible, absolutely not.

920 Cole=567.4 Wallace x self 567.4 wallace cannot produce green, but a self can isolate the genes to the ability of up to 1/4 green. Then there are those anomalies such as the 954 Pistono and 547 Kournikakis.
567.4=567.5 Mombert x 782 Holland(827 Holland x 531 Salentine) The 782 Holland would the be culpret on the female side

715 Dill= 567.5 Mombert x 804 Zehr. The 804 Zehr is a known carrier of the green gene.

Tom

hows that for a monkey wrench!

11/20/2004 10:24:10 AM

Decatur, IL

Dan Carlson sent me seeds from his 836.2 true green squash.
It was grown from an 845 Nesbitt.
Charlie

11/20/2004 11:03:36 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Colour breaks occur in loads of plants blue kestrel and blue catriona in potatoes have happened to me.Theres probably a hundred that I could name off the top of my head,all the Jupiter giant dahlias,fairweather and john hughes chrysanths why not Pumpkins.Maybe it is only a matter of time before we see a squash grown on a pumpkin plant clone.

11/20/2004 11:15:55 AM

Long Island,New York

First off...the 920Cole has produced squash in the past and it was a jokingly open topic of discussion years ago...believed to be unprotected after pollination or x open. AGsven could comment on a squash from the 920Cole.
Secondly, I don't understand the anomily of the 954Pistono...the 455 Andrews from whence it came was pollinated by a green squash, and more than 50% of the 455 x selves grow green from the start.The fact of the matter is it just aint cut and dry as to whether its a green gene or not...it can't fit into the dominant/recessive simplistic approach....I don't have the answer----but I know whats NOT the answer.
Also (thirdly) ...and I admit I should research this first but I don't believe the Carlson fruit was a "true greenie".Show me a day 30 picture please..............G

11/20/2004 11:39:33 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

G anytime you want to give yourself a headache look up epistasis.

11/20/2004 11:51:30 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I saw a Dill 12 seeds that were purchased directly fromn the Dill's throw bright orange 2 years in a row throw all solid greenies this year.

I have no idea as to the genetics of the #12. Perhaps they are similar?

11/20/2004 12:25:11 PM

Nova Scotia

kyle how big did the 810 greenie get?

11/20/2004 1:15:05 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

IF I'm cotrrect...IF....Then this is the one.....IIIFFF!

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=124&gid=38

11/20/2004 1:56:36 PM

No Place Special

The carlson 836 off the 845 Nesbitt was in my opinion squash but I dont think it was a "true" squash if I remember correctly. I do remember thinking ..WOW... when i grew the 845 Nesbitt in 02' it was a brilliant orange and when I seen Dan's 845 Nesbit offspring that was mostly green I couldn't believe it.

11/20/2004 2:52:23 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

The 810 greenie weighed over 680#
Now I'm confused and frustrated after reading all this, and the enlightening private e-mails I just came home from work too.
This whole ordeal has gotten complicated, and all I was trying to do was point out that it *can* happen to get duped...I know the jilted grower and myself did.
I do appreciate everyone's input though, thanks.

11/20/2004 7:34:57 PM

Mocksville, NC

You do get duped out there in pumpkinland,and it was very good advice. No matter how anybody takes it, but I just love how the responces shifted to genetics, and real pumpkin growing! Thats what I'm talking about.
Thanks Southern!!!! What a great Website.

11/21/2004 10:41:51 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Thank you Eddy Z, aka: Ice-man, for calling me at home and straightening this situation out, I really do appreciate it!
This issue is hopefully to be resolved and I can only hope the grower who lost most of his season, can accept my apologies...and a genuine replacement 810 Dill, and any other seed of his choosing from my collection.

11/23/2004 10:45:04 PM

Deer Park WA

Our 810 Dill we grew had the classic black/green thick vines I find in strong squash genetics. So much so that I want to cross an 810 back into one of our 823* next season, I just wish I had one! Oh well short of God sending me an 810 for Christmas I will grow one of my muddled 2001 410 (810 Dill X 1006/1061 Waterman 1-ton cross). BTW our 410 threw dark orange/red heavy ribbed pumpkins with white seeds!

11/24/2004 12:03:14 AM