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No Place Special

I have had so many very nice requests that it troubled me to only have 2 845 Nesbit seeds to give away. I have done some work and now have 5 of these seeds to give away, thanks to the generosity of another grower. I have printed out all requests and plan to go through them this weekend and contact the winners. If anyone else out there has an extra 845 seed they wont ever use, I have several good homes waiting for them. Some of these newer growers really have the dedication and desire to become a world class grower someday. Maybe if you dont have any 845's you might have another proven seed that could help some more of our fellow growers out with? Hey, I thought twice about giving my 845s away but I tell you what, after reading some of these requests for them it just feels FANTASTIC to know that it will make someones day.... maybe even their season! Trust me, they will be in good hands!

12/2/2004 11:02:52 PM

Central Connecticut

Great job Mike! How many great seeds are floating around that may never see soil?...Very nice gesture...

12/3/2004 7:45:51 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

Mike,
I gave away so many awesome seeds this fall that I sometimes think I lost my mind but the one thing I do know as a student of plant breeding and genetics...or just to look at the rise in weights each year...is that there will always be better seeds produced each year for a few lucky growers that make the right crosses. It's a good thing of you to give away good seeds and I congratulate you 100%.

In my opinion we should all make very strict controlled crosses each year to the best of our ability and keep on swapping with other growers to spread the seeds around the globe in the hopes that they will be tried and proven. It sure is nice to try to pawn off a good "on paper" cross to a new grower but it shows much more character like yourself to give away some proven ones.

I say f-u to all the growers just looking to make themselves famous by tempting the newer growers to waste a year on a seed that isn't proven just to boost their own image or egos. If you really want to help a new grower, send them a proven seed....along with your own crosses for possible use in future years if they in fact do get proven by the grower himself or some other schmo.

Good job Mike and your seeds are on the way...
Michel

12/3/2004 12:10:32 PM

No Place Special

Thanks guys! I have actually had three more growers offer 845 seeds and Mr. Nesbit himself! Sounds as though he only has a couple left so i dont know if I will take them from him or not.

12/3/2004 11:48:19 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Gee Michel, a little harsh here aren't we?....
"I say f-u to all the growers just looking to make themselves famous by tempting the newer growers to waste a year on a seed that isn't proven just to boost their own image or egos. If you really want to help a new grower, send them a proven seed...."
I think it's normal human nature for folks to want to get their crosses grown, to show that what they created was a good cross. Ain't nobody "tempting" anyone with some kind of Tree of Life apple, in an attempt to coerce someone into growing something that's a worthless effort, geeeezzz. We're all adults here, not children...if someone doesn't want to grow something, they won't. What, when new growers ask for seed, we're supposed to give away, say an 842 Eaton, instead of the cross we just made that also has great genetics in it? Let's see, don't folks have to get some experience under their belt before they should grow better seed, since the *Law of Averages* dictates only modest success in the beginning.
If you don't want to give any of your "unproven" crosses away then fine, but don't go telling me f-u because someone asks for seed and I give them an unproven seed such as the 307 Little, which may throw a 500+# fruit that goes over 15% heavy, for that newby...gorsh, shouldn't "tempt" them like that huh?
They may *waste* a year on your seed, but I feel confident enough to know, (and my crosses have done just well for 1st year growers thank you) they won't *waste* a year on mine!

12/4/2004 6:06:00 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

I'll say it again Kyle....We should all try to send out as many of our seeds as we can...BUT...many experienced growers such as yourself have way too many proven seeds to grow yourself so why not include one of those to a newer grower along with your seeds and let them wait to see if yours are proven before trying them.

I don't care what anyone grows and it's for certain that some people like to take the risk on a new cross but I think it's misleading for anyone to try to predict what will come from any new unproven seed and I think we hear that very often and it struck a nerve with me...that's all.

Why should I grow an 845 Bobier next year for example and send all my own crosses out to newbies so I don't have to try it myself? That is misleading and unethical and I think I'm entitled to my opinion as are you and everyone else. The f-u thing was to emphasize only how strong I feel agains this practice and wasn't alluding to any specific grower or growers in any way but if it strikes a nerve with you then so be it.

Just want you to know that I have nothing at all against you and that on the other hand sometimes "he who smelled it dealt it" and "if the shoe fits, wear it"

Best regards,
Michel

12/4/2004 6:51:50 AM

Deer Park WA

Mike Frantz, got your email the other day on getting rid of our old seeds, although many of them arn't proven so I doubt folks like Michel would grow them or appreciate them being redistributed, so I think I will send them off to our clubs. Michel Kuerbis, I have been working with a great squash strain for several years now that I was lucky enough to isolate, I dont want to give any of the seeds away I want to keep the genetics to myself until I prove them out. Sound selfish? I say F-U to newbies that want to swipe all my hard work, so what would you rather have, freely given crosses that are unproven, or NO seeds at all?

12/4/2004 12:34:00 PM

No Place Special

At one time every seed was unproven!!!!

12/4/2004 1:51:16 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Gad's,
As a rookie, I am very thankful for growers like you who send seeds to us so that we can grow.
As for Michel, his attitude sux and doesn't represent what most of us feel this hobby is about.

12/4/2004 2:41:43 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Michel,thanks for sending me that unproven 513 White that I grew my 709 on lol.

12/4/2004 2:58:57 PM

New Hampshire

Bingo, Mike Frantz!!

The one thing every proven seed has in common is that it was planted. I personally think Proven seeds are over rated. I do have to admit I am now planning to plant the 842, 1097,805 and the 1104 I have. We know they have the potential to throw a big one, but I am seeing a lot of genetics from 04 seeds that are very promising. I believe there are 1000#+ potential from just about any one’s crosses in the past several years. The power is in most of these genetic packages.
The story of the 582 is a classic example. As some of you know, the 582 was planted by a fluke. I started the first 582 by the advice of Bruce Whittier (He didn’t start one). I didn’t put in the ground because the seedling in the greenhouse was a runt and plus the weight 582 didn’t impress me. Bruce in 2002 lost several plants early due to a frost and called me if I had any back-ups. He came over and picked out the 582 and one other to replace the frost bitten ones. Well the rest is history. How many other 582 are out there? I believe MANY!
I did a search of the 50 heaviest pumpkins. 48 out of 50 were grown from growers who have at least one other 1000#. The other two had a 996 and a 855. I think that is pretty convincing proof that the grower has a lot to do with a seed being a success. I would dare to say if you gave these top-notch growers any one of our 04 Seeds, with some successful genetic lines, you would see a lot more proven seeds.

12/4/2004 3:23:22 PM

New Hampshire

While I am on a roll. People not only look for proven seeds but seeds with name recognition. We are a culture that buys the package not the product. Image is everything. 25 years ago I worked in a fancy restaurant as a wine steward (I know how ironic, I now work at a drug/alcohol rehab) Even tough I knew nothing about wine. When I came up to the table I was the wine god to most people. Put a goof in a monkey suit and you made him into a “expert”.
I am now going to go out a limb and out put my theory to the test. Next year I will personally grow nothing but unproven seeds next year. Some may be from obscure growers but I have to be confident their crosses are what they really claim to be. I am either crazy or confident or something in-between.

12/4/2004 3:24:20 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Wow Jim(I hope I got your first name correct, Mr. Ford),
great post by you! I've been thinking the same thing, virtually. Many seeds don't get a chance to get proven.
You are going out on a limb, and more power to you. I hope you prove every one you grow. I don't have any crosses, for you to try. Are you looking for people here to offer you their unproven seeds to try, or do you have plenty already? Are you looking for suggestions? I look forward to seeing how this plays out.
You did have some hot, proven seeds you were contemplating growing, I won't hold it against you if you do decide to grow any of them. Sometimes our emotions make us say things we wish we didn't(smile).
I'm very glad you posted your thoughts.

Doug

12/4/2004 3:49:06 PM

Roselle, IL GJGEM@sbcglobal.net

Jim, I would like to see how some of those seeds I sent you do out East.

12/4/2004 6:18:35 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Good for you Jim! This is how they get proven after all.

12/4/2004 6:19:26 PM

Atlanta, Georgia

Enjoy the proven and unproven seeds I sent to you Tom! LOL!

....and you're welcome Mark!

People love to get on a roll this time of year...including myself....LMFAO

12/5/2004 5:12:03 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

Well...while I'm at it I may as well go all the way as usual...

My "attitude" is one of trying to enjoy growing pumpkins and to help anyone I can with both proven and unproven seeds which I freely give away. I acquire my seeds thru simple seed swapping with other growers and send out probably a hundred bubble packs a year for which I usually pay the postage out of my own empty pocket. If I send my own seeds out to anyone I don't think about the seeds anymore and they can roast and eat them for all I care or trade them away to whoever they want.

My policy is never to slam anyone personally and I was and still am angry about a practice that is against what I believe and not about any specific person.

It's sad a bit that the very people that like to slam me personally on the message board are people that asked me for seeds from my list and got them freely....but that's pumpkin politics I guess...

You can't please everyone.
Michel

12/5/2004 5:23:47 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

Mike Franz,
Sorry if I'm messing up your original post buddy!
I won't post anymore replies here.
Michel

12/5/2004 5:27:06 AM

New Hampshire

Doug,
No, I am not actively looking for more seeds. I plan to hold to my words but to clarify my position is that I PERSONALLY will not grow those seeds but give those proven seeds to the students and interns that will be growing in our patch. Next year we will be growing 20 plants so there is plenty of room for the proven and unproven seeds. I will be growing 6-8 plants

12/5/2004 6:20:23 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Jim,
That sounds like a great plan. I hope you get that 1600 lber. you've been talking about:-)


Doug

12/5/2004 6:51:57 PM

Atlanta, Georgia

Jim,
I'm going to send you a few over 1000 producing seeds
sometime when I have enough money and before the season starts. I believe in what you are doing.

Michel

12/6/2004 2:03:45 AM

Litchfield N. H. 03052

Jim good luck to you, and like you say ' may you grow the second largest pumpkin'.

12/6/2004 7:15:01 AM

No Place Special

No problem Michel! LOL!

Everyone I am still getting an occasional 845 donated to me for the give away.... please give me a few more days. I hope to give out as many as I can.

THANKS!

Mike Frantz

12/6/2004 9:55:45 AM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Well, I want to take a moment and give Michel a well deserved appology.
My comment about his attitude was over the line.
I appologize Michel.
Tom

12/6/2004 4:19:13 PM

Atlanta, Georgia

apology accepted Tom!
Your 760 and the other seeds will be sent out
as soon as I can. They are in the bubble.
Michel

12/8/2004 1:43:48 AM