From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Belgium

Hello everyone. I would like to grow completely organically this season. I have already applied manure and compost in preparation (last fall). I just wondered what and how much to use as fertilizer. Very nice results can be achieved, such as the Daho pumpkins. Does anyone have experience with 100% organic growing?

1/16/2025 10:39:27 AM

Danbury, CT

From a soil fertility and plant nutrition perspective, I think it is definitely possible; however, pest and disease control will be your biggest concern.

I haven't been growing AG's long enough to know for certain, but I can imagine you will need to be painstakingly thorough in your IPM if you want to remove all non-organic pesticides from your growing season. Just my two cents...

1/16/2025 11:17:32 AM

Belgium

https://www.worldclassgardening.com/grower/mehdi_daho

It is certainly possible. :)

1/16/2025 2:11:17 PM

Grittyville, WA

I know there's a temptation to reach for the nearest chemical when a problem arises but from a health and self sufficiency standpoint its better to consider all the options. There's the Jadam philosophy for pest control, plus theres things like milk or vinegar for or powdery mildery, and garlic etc for aphids and physical controls like nets for other insects. I think there's a change in mentality from "but thats not good enough!" to "actually, I CAN get a good result this way". I find there's usually side benefits to the organic methods, The chemical methods might be more effective and attractive at first glance, but there are no side benefits, and there may even be negative side affects/ hidden drawbacks.

Anyhow, put some rock type minerals phosphorus zinc boron (I think in some cases certain mineral fertilizers can be considered organic, or there's organic ways to boost the plants uptake of these) at the base of the plant and use the high potassium manure more for feeding the secondary root system. The main mistake organic growers make is to rely only on one amendment (like manure or compost) which is often a bit too high in potassium and organics.

[Last edit: 01/16/25 9:40:25 PM]

1/16/2025 3:01:47 PM

Grittyville, WA

Some of the other fertilizers that might be of benefit check out the top tomato grower: (Is it not ok to steal ideas from another crop and try them on pumpkins? Its crop-unfaithful, but you still remain faithful to the science.)

https://m.youtube.com/@GardeningHomesteadingWoodwork

1/16/2025 3:14:05 PM

Mission Viejo, CA

How much to use is dependent on what is in your soil today. A soil test is the best investment a grower can make. It will tell you what you are deficient in and what you have enough of. After that, get familiar with the Langley Estimator and it will provide some insight into how much.

Good luck!

1/16/2025 8:05:14 PM

Danbury, CT

Rottweiler, I'm not sure I understand the EU Requirements for growing "organically" but there are certain metrics that would need to be met.

Again, I'm skeptical....

Also, FWIW, growing organic does not necessarily mean growing without using chemicals or pesticides. In the U.S. one of the more toxic compounds you can spray is Copper Fungicide, but it is still organically acceptable.

1/16/2025 8:24:10 PM

Belgium

Thanks for all the reply's !

I already experimented with milk last season. As a preventive measure. It worked quite well. In the end I did have mildew, but I had the impression that it had been delayed for weeks.

Yes we use the copper also, mainly for blight on the potatoes, but I prefer to use as little as possible.

I have been growing vegetables for 20 years, giant pumpkins since 2017. I think every year is different, it depends on many factors. But it is an addictive hobby in which you can learn something new every day.

It is especially with the fertilization that I want to go completely organic. Only I don't know if my products will be strong enough in their effect, because they all are slow release.

I'm used to use a water-soluble product with fast results...
I find the choice of organic products limited here in Belgium. I use rabbit manure in my new patch. I wanted Alpaca but no one in my area...

1/17/2025 1:40:24 AM

Belgium

I am lucky as far as harmful insects are concerned, I never had cucumber beetle or squash v borer etc. I also never sprayed for it. (From my understanding they adapt to it). I sow a lot of flowers, calendula, marigolds, sunflowers etc. This attracts parasitic wasps and other beneficial insects. Sometimes I find some aphids, usually under the leaves that are closest to my pumpkin. I just push them flat between my fingers. It is mainly due to annual monoculture that many insects come. I have a large variety of plants and flowers. Only mildew is a problem, but fortunately that is usually later in the season. It is mainly the wind that is my biggest enemy. This will receive extra attention next season.

1/17/2025 3:42:48 AM

Syracuse, NY

Rottweiler - In brief research for 'Mildew Cure in Belgium':

https://www.sipcam.com/bx/en/belgium/agrochemicals-bl/fungicides-bl/araw-bl
THAT is not IT, butt it's what I saw right away, and here is my comment on my terrestrial US favorite:

I am a BIG fan of 'Mildew Cure' I bought as a 2.5-gallon jug in 2020, when I grew my PB of 940.6 on the 2003 Haist. It is super-organic, I do believe and is Garlic-based with other natural ingredients that make the whole place smell like a big Garlic Pizza for a day or so, a side benefit! I used perhaps half of it in 55 gallons or LESS of H2O, whatever the proper dosage was, with a garden hose and hose-end sprayer, under and above the leaves - Kinda fun!
Next day, PM GONE, not to return for several weeks if I don't even remember if it did - maybe mildly. It worked, it was reasonable from Holland's (go figure - is Holland near you, lol?) Land O' Giants and it keeps for a pretty long time.
See if it is available, or a comparable product, near you, and good luck.
eric g

1/17/2025 5:20:12 AM

Belgium

Okay thanks Eric, I will look into it further. What if it rains, don't you have to reapply it every time? Or does one or other temporary layer form over the leaf?

1/17/2025 7:06:04 AM

Grittyville, WA

About fertilizers I always figured 50/50 natural and soluble chemical was a nice balance and the plants could get the best of both worlds. But now I would like to try copying Sutherland's playbook a bit more because evidently it can work so well.
As you note, its hard to find good sources for every organic fertilizer and its sometimes expensive. Rabbit or goat manure are really good, especially if they've been eating alfalfa.

[Last edit: 01/17/25 10:37:54 AM]

1/17/2025 10:34:43 AM

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=732066

You can buy it under the ingredient name at places like nuts.com or your local brewery store. In europe there should be bakery supply stores or brew stores

1/17/2025 12:49:52 PM

Syracuse, NY

Certainly not every time anything, butt it's probably like car wax - basically there, but wearing away-like, until whenever it is needed again. It has Cottonseed oil, Corn Oil and Garlic Oil. YUM!!! I don't think I applied it again, perhaps never did - I like saving the remainder and I must have used it unmemorably, lol; Like a Space Launch, though, it left an impression on me! That'd be something...
Oh, by the weigh, I have a 55-gallon barrel to be filled w. H2O + MC and that goes through a 70-PSI sprinkler pump/overhead Whizzer Sprinkler(s) PLUS the sprayer for the undersides, whereas it may have sounded like a 'hose-end sprayer' was like a 'hose-end feeder' -
That'd be more inconvenient for ME, butt, whatever's in place already would be good.
Spudder, sorry, butt which product are you referring to here or over there -
I didn't want to ASSuME Mildew Cure, if you have a moment. Eric G

[Last edit: 01/17/25 8:08:45 PM]

1/17/2025 8:05:51 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Last year I did an experiment. In a 400 square foot greenhouse I grew an AG without conventional ferts or pesticides. Only on the hottest days did I cool the plant off. Every 7-10 days I sprayed the plant with neem oil, nothing else. All the secondaries were supported with vines growing everywhere. Early on there were cuke beetles, neem oil interrupts the breeding cycle of most insects, so after July I had none. Powdery mildew was a problem with my outside plants but the AG in the greenhouse was totally unaffected, swear to God. The heat and humidity inside the greenhouse was ideal for disease but the plant re aimed healthy until cold weather. Will definitely be using neem oil again on a bigger scale.

1/17/2025 10:44:30 PM

Grittyville, WA

Things like chloride and nitrate can make a big difference in how your plant tastes to an aphid, and I think there's mineral nutrition profile that can help with powdery mildew too... with stronger the cells and more turgor pressure, the plant will be more resistant to pests and diseases... the plants also create their own defences, like natural waxes and their own chemicals defences that protect them from everything, even damaging UV light. If they have all the micronutrients it may make it easier for them to assemble more of what they need. Advancing eco agriculture promotes the idea of a "plant health pyramid". Admittedly, when you start to dig into plant health there are a lot of concepts that require a bit of high school biology and chemistry to understand. But things can also be learned from observations and experiments out in the garden... if you simply pay attention to what works and what doesnt work. Try to work smarter not harder, and where there's a will there's a way.

1/18/2025 7:08:13 AM

Milstop but if you read that message thread or look in bigkaunas diary you will see the active ingredient and it can be bought a lot cheaper than as a chem spray. It is used in bakeries and brewing.
Now get this, if I buy it from an agri. store i have to have a course but if I buy it as a food ingredient I can just go ahead and use it. Go figure.

1/18/2025 11:45:28 AM

Syracuse, NY

Thanks, spudder - Interesting and well, you said it. I had to un-type my same comment, lol.
Andy H > Same here, many years ago when I had a partial Floating Row Cover Greenhouse. I had Like 2 845 Bobier plants and the bugs and powdery mildew were completely at bay outside, where they belonged. It comes from the South where it is warm enough to survive and then blow on up to US. I wish I had on video a stray neighborhood cat that went in from one end of it to the other and on out through when it was lit up at night. I just stood there 30 feet away and left it alone. It was funny.
Had to be there. eg

1/18/2025 6:30:29 PM