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West Amwell, NJ

I've had a few people ask me how to search and order seeds.

Here is the main page for searching
http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/searchgrin.html

Click 'Research Crops and Descriptor/Evaluation'
which takes you to this link:
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/croplist.pl

On this page you can pick the plant you are interested in.
Let's pick 'Sunflower'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/crop.pl?79

On this page you can do several searches. the USDA has a list of descriptors you can search for, such as oil content, height, seed size, etc.
click 'List of Descriptors'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/desclist.pl?79

Let's say we are interested in seed length. Scroll down until you find SEED LENGTH
click 'Code Values' under seed length
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/codes.pl?79167

Code Definition Number of Accessions
1 SMALL (2 Millimeters) 635
2 (1 = SMALL, 9 = VERY LARGE) 1109
3 1 Centimeter 524
4 (1 = SMALL, 9 = VERY LARGE) 625
5 1.5 Centimeters 550
6 (1 = SMALL, 9 = VERY LARGE) 61
7 2.3 Centimeters 26
8 (1 = SMALL, 9 = VERY LARGE) 1
9 VERY LARGE (3 Centimeters)

5/5/2007 12:25:55 AM

West Amwell, NJ

as you can see the seed lengths are listed 1 to 9, with 1 the smallest length and 9 the largest length. There is only one accession listed as a 8. Click on that 1.
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/close.pl?79167+8

There is only one listing for Ames 22280
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1484033
This is a listing for a large seeded variety of sunflower from China. If you want more information on this variety then click 'observations'. If you want to add this to your shopping cart then click on 'request germplasm'. It will add it to your shopping cart. If you wish to add other items, hit back on your brower to get back to the search menu.

5/5/2007 12:26:17 AM

West Amwell, NJ

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You can use these descriptors to find out the names of all races of maize.

main page
http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/searchgrin.html

Click 'Research Crops and Descriptor/Evaluation'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/croplist.pl

Select 'Maize'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/crop.pl?89

click 'List of Descriptors'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/desclist.pl?89

select 'Code Values' under the listing PRIMARY RACE
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/codes.pl?89001

You can see the vast number of maize races and the number of accessions for each race.

5/5/2007 12:35:56 AM

West Amwell, NJ

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There are some images on the USDA site for some of the plants. You can usually find the images listed under Descritors as IMAGE. For example, let's look at Amaranth pictures in the field.

main page
http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/searchgrin.html

Click 'Research Crops and Descriptor/Evaluation'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/croplist.pl

Select 'Amaranth'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/crop.pl?159

click 'List of Descriptors'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/desclist.pl?159

select 'IMAGE' under the listing IMAGE (**DON'T** select 'Code values' - it's easier doing it my way)
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/desc.pl?159033

As you can see there are 14 pics in the field, and 116 in the greenhouse.

Select '14 Accessions' for field
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/dno_eval_acc.pl?159033+492059+14

You can see a small subset of thumbnails for some of the Amaranth in the database.

5/5/2007 12:44:36 AM

West Amwell, NJ

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Besides the Descriptors you can do searches on the narratives. This is a simple text search. They have tools to do text searches. There is a general text search, and a specific search by species. I'll show you the specific search first.

Here is the main page for searching
http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/searchgrin.html

Click 'Research Crops and Descriptor/Evaluation'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/croplist.pl

Let's pick 'Sunflower'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/crop.pl?79

Select 'Search all Helianthus descriptions'
https://sun.ars-grin.gov:8082/pls/npgs_public/prodweb.narrnarr.form?in_crop=Helianthus

Now you can enter in search words to look for. For example, type in "extremely tall"

It lists one plant PI 586868 (4 to 5 m tall)

You can search on all sorts of words like "tall", "meters", "very tall" "5 meters", "5m tall", "5 m tall", "12 feet", "feet tall", "meters tall", "height" "large", "tropical", etc.

5/5/2007 1:04:43 AM

West Amwell, NJ

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There is a general search for narratives off the main page. This search all species in the database. If you want to narrow this search, you need to include the latin name along with your search words. For example, searching for tall corn, "zea tall"


Here is the main page for searching
http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/searchgrin.html

click 'Accession Area Queries'
http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/acc/acc_queries.html

under 'text search' enter your search string.

If you have the PI number for the accession you want, then you can go to 'Simple queries' and enter the PI number.

5/5/2007 1:08:59 AM

West Amwell, NJ

If you check out Reimer Seeds, you'll see that many of their varieties list the PI Number from the USDA. It's nice that they do that. Most people don't realize what that means and that they can just order them from the USDA for free.

5/5/2007 1:33:16 AM

Netherlands

Brian, I see that some seeds were collected in the 1940s and still are available for distribution. How does that work?

Thanks,

Brad

5/5/2007 2:28:00 AM

West By God Virginia

I'm no trying to be smart or mean spirited, but there's a reason why they are "free". They are "free" because they aren't intended for Joe Six Pack to tap dance around the rules. The asccencions that they offer are for scientists and professors and such to conduct experiments and make crosses. If everybody decided to not pay for seeds and tap dance around the rules this program would cease to exist. Buy your seeds, make your own selections and crosses. Just my opinion.

5/5/2007 7:59:14 AM

West Amwell, NJ

The original seeds were collected in the 1940's, but they grow them every few years in fields and save the seeds.

5/5/2007 10:06:07 PM

West Amwell, NJ

Yes, it's generally for scientists, but large and small seed companies also use them for breeding purposes. I've read about hybrid corn that tropical USDA maize was used in their creation. Many profit based, large scale companies use seeds off the USDA that they grow out, save the seeds and make a profit off of. Technically Joe Six Pack can get seeds, as the USDA offers a one time offer to the home gardner. Another reason to use it is that I can't go to the Walmart store, or any online seed shop, and pick up a pack of Oloton Maize or Amaranthus Australis. I'm not looking for everyone to use it as a one stop seed store. I want people to use it for breeding of large varieties and share with others on here. If someone already has an accession, grows it out, and shares the seeds, there is no need for other people to get it from the USDA when they can get it from someone on here. I don't want people to get greedy and order 500 varieties from there. I actually mentioned that in a previous post. In fact, I plan on contacting them to make donations of some sunflower varieties. People should do the same with their pumpkins, squash, long gourds, etc. That way it ensures the genetic material isn't lost. Many positive things in the giant vegetable community can come from using the USDA. I trust that most people on Bigpumpkins will use the site in a descent manner. If I can secure a large amount of seed of any USDA variety, I will be putting it in the giant veggie exchange. I hope everyone else does the same.

5/5/2007 10:50:13 PM

West Amwell, NJ

BTW, when I say secure a large amount of seed from the USDA. I mean, get an accession, grow it out, save those seeds, and share with others.

I'd also like to say, I can't see the average gardener wasting his time slogging through all those accessions looking for some run of the mill tomato seeds when he can just go to Walmart and pick them up with a nice pretty picture of the pack. Giant growers are much more interested in the USDA, because we are looking for specific attributes, such as large seed size, height, weight, etc., that we can use for breeding larger plants. I can't see anyone else, other than a giant grower, who would spend countless hours searching through accessions. We are a minority in the general gardening community.

5/5/2007 11:02:46 PM

West By God Virginia

There are plenty of people who exploit this system. There was a huge thread about it (I think at Garden web)were some tomato growers got run of the mill seeds for free from the USDA and posted how to get around the rules much in the same way you did. I understand were you're coming from about varieties that aren't available, but it still will lead the cheapskates to get a hand out. By all means do what you like. I just wanted to point out that people abuse this kind of system.

5/5/2007 11:27:16 PM

West Amwell, NJ

Part of me thought the same as you are saying. Not sure if it was the the little guy on the one shoulder with the golden halo, or the other guy the other shoulder with the pointy horns. :) I've know about it for a long time, and I've thought about it for a while about if I should tell people, or not to tell people. I thought there would be cheapstakes abusing it, but I weighed that with the greater good of the whole giant growing community. I really thought it could open some doors into getting many more plants main-stream in the giant growing community, such as amaranth, sorghum, pearl millet, etc. I found carolina cross watermelons on the USDA, as well as Gigante Kohlrabi, but I didn't order them, because I can get carolina cross watermelons from Burpee (which I did this year), and Gigante Kohlrabi from some online shops (which I also did). I can't get very tall Pearl millet anywhere, so I got that from the USDA. I told people about getting around the one time offer, if they want to order something each year. They could order 4 accessions of corn one year, 3 amaranth accessions another year. You can also get around that by sending to a different address each year as well. One year send them to your house, your parents house the next, brother's house the next, etc. I asked myself, what is worse? Gardeners getting it and sharing it, or companies getting these seeds and selling them to gardeners? Probably isn't right either way, but anytime seeds are saved and disseminated, either through sharing or commercial, it's a plus in the grand scheme of things. The more people growing rare and unique plants, such as some teosinte, amaranths, etc. ensure that they will still be in existence. I think the USDA is the greatest endeavor by the US government. I don't feel bad about paying taxes knowing it's there. I wouldn't want to do anything to ruin it. Hopefully, I didn't!

5/6/2007 10:46:52 AM

San Jose garysand@pacbell.net

I think most people (like me) are too lazy to go through all the hassle for some seeds, especially when there are many generous growers of all kinds of giant varieties on here. It is a lot easier to send a bubble for a total of $1.44 postage

5/6/2007 3:06:55 PM