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Morgantown, WV

A few recent posts have drummed up some cannabis talk. My advanced seminar this Spring had a lot to do with cannabis, and it's cultivation. It seems that there is a growing interest in the similarities between cannabis and giant vegetable growing, mostly due to "max yield" mentalities.

I'd like to take the step to create some dialogue on the matter. While I feel many practices between the hobbies are congruent, I also feel there are many things done with cannabis that are done for reasons other than what will help the plant sustain maximum health and growth potential.

I am no expert, simply someone with experience in both. This is an effort for others with experience to help those with little, sort through the crap and maybe come up with some creative ideas on how to improve their garden, be it eau d' lepieu or your favorite oversized vegetable.

All comments welcome, even that GT guy who always disagrees with me :)

GT, it's open, we can keep the same topic or you can choose a new one. Good to meet you my friend, what's on your mind?

4/6/2019 9:16:36 PM

Grittyville, WA

Too bad I cant sell pumpkin leaves for $5 a gram. I read a cannabis book looking for overlaps... But other than using myco they seem rather different. What do you think?

4/7/2019 12:48:26 AM

On a cliff in the desert

Maybe you could formulate a good cigar with pumpkin leaves. :-)

4/7/2019 1:06:21 AM

Never used it , but when looking stuff up on the internet those sites seem to pop up. I noticed that there seemed to be a number of (I guess you would call them heavy hitters) growers that thought soil health (microbes) and organic nutrients was the way to go.
We do not have to worry about flushing the plants but soil health seems to be a trend in those sites.

4/7/2019 7:10:25 AM

Morgantown, WV

Good points Spudder. I honestly think that aside from nutrient management, the biggest connection is simply the indoor aspect of it enticing some season extension possibilities.

That said, it is an entirely different crop with different goals in mind, and many of the practices and additives used are for secondary metabolite production, not overall mass. I also feel that the nutrient industry within the cannabis market is unnecessarily overpriced due to the profit margin on cannabis.

There is another connection in the fact that both hobbies have an incredible amount of people creating their own crosses of different varieties. This is fine in vegetables that we trade with each other, but will eventually become a large downfall of the cannabis industry. There simply is no control over how strains are named, how stable (or unstable) the seeds are compared to the parental lineage, or even what comprises those strains.

4/7/2019 7:47:25 AM

Morgantown, WV

I feel that one area that may help the pumpkin world would be genetic testing. This is beginning to surface in cannabis due to the aforementioned seed market mess, and will be integral in the industry becoming as accurate as it should be in a medicinal market. The problem here, again, the cost of testing, which is happily doled out by the cannabis operations in order to keep operating. It is getting less expensive as it is needed more, so perhaps it is an option for someone with a better science acumen than myself.

So far, to my knowledge, we really don't have a clear idea of what genes are responsible for driving that massive growth. We simply have what we can see and deduce from lineage. We see often though, where a surprise seed of the 1500 pound range starts kicking out monsters. I think a great step forward would be testing some of these monster makers to see what is actually expressed at a higher level, or possibly even repressed to allow something else more room.

Tomatoes are being criss crossed at a surprising rate around here, and quite honestly I'm impressed with how quickly weights have improved. There is big debate though on what causes megablooms, and which variety is heaviest for its size. Perhaps some of these factors could now be determined in a similar manner to terpene profiling and genetic inquiry.

4/7/2019 8:16:58 AM

Freedom Is Just Another Word For Noting Left To Lose

Hydro cannabis growers taught soil growers that as long as the plant wants for nothing (proper nutrient balance, good water, elevated amounts of light and oxygen) big things happen. Hydro growers also worked on insect control which reduces plant stress. Hydro growers also worked on understanding light schedules and light spectrums. Add these to what the soil cannabis growers were already doing (topping and training and super soils) increased maximum yields would follow. The cannabis growers also worked out proper PH ranges in both soil and hydro. Everything that a giant pumpkin grower (heavy hitter) does is because of the cannabis industry.

4/7/2019 11:50:33 AM

Freedom Is Just Another Word For Noting Left To Lose

I recommend three books that will help enrich your knowledge and can be applied to your giant garden.

https://www.amazon.com/Cannabis-Grow-Bible-Definitive-Recreational/dp/193786636X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=The+Cannabis+Grow+Bible&qid=1554652676&s=gateway&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Horticulture-Outdoor-Medical-Growers/dp/187882323X/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=The+Cannabis+Grow+Bible&qid=1554652846&s=gateway&sr=8-4

https://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Garden-Saver-Handbook-Healthy/dp/0932551912/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=The+Cannabis+Garden+saver&qid=1554652890&s=gateway&sr=8-1

4/7/2019 12:02:15 PM

Another thing I have seen is people telling what exactly these high price nutrients are and how to make your own for very little cost. Even in the pumpkin hobby , if you can find it in the agriculture supply stores , it is usually much cheaper because that is the only way farmers can afford to use it.

4/7/2019 1:09:22 PM

Freedom Is Just Another Word For Noting Left To Lose

These guys sell good stuff. Offer videos and advice

https://www.kelp4less.com/

4/7/2019 2:34:19 PM

Grittyville, WA

Marijuana is such a huge industry compared to giant tomatoes or giant pumpkins. The knowledge mixing between these pursuits I suspect is not new it has probably been occuring for many years...

4/7/2019 7:27:09 PM

Morgantown, WV

I agree Brandon, but the comment that Cannabis growers ( specifically the hydro ones) have revolutionized so many aspects of agriculture simply couldn't be farther from the truth. It has been science, and innovative agricultural models that have driven the knowledge and cannabis growers simply adapted to it for its ability to hide while also creating less waste to dispose of.

I have no problem with many of the techniques transferring between hobbies, and started this thread to talk about some of the interesting ones. It seems though, that people often like to generalize when it comes to cannabis, and take a few operations' way of doing things as gospel rather than talk about what is standard practice.

Hopefully, we can all settle down (myself included) and over time, bring up individual topics to sort through together. This isn't meant to be an argumentative thread, just a place that those with experience can agree on good practices, sift out the out-dated practices that are not commonly users anymore, and simply open those who chose not to research the subject to some of the ideas.

4/8/2019 6:13:02 AM

Grittyville, WA

My comment was just along the lines of keeping things in perspective. Our "industry" is miniature compared to marijuana. Its sort of a complaint. Along the lines of what you're saying Dustin, my feeling is that if you want

4/8/2019 2:21:13 PM

Grittyville, WA

to compete in the marijuana industry you will darn near have to have a science degree or really know what you are doing. Growing it is not a hobby anymore. Thats just the economics... What I have heard.

4/8/2019 2:24:26 PM

Grittyville, WA

I think marijuana growing has probably contributed to giant growing Dustin. Agriculture is always profit focused. The most yield for the least input. And you wont grow a giant pumpkin that way. MJ growers have had more money & creativity.

4/8/2019 2:32:25 PM

Grittyville, WA

The specifics are way over my head. Sorry I dont have much to contribute to the discussion.

4/8/2019 2:36:50 PM

Morgantown, WV

Lol, it's ok Brandon, we know :)

Look, this all stemmed from a genetic discussion I didn't want to dirty Adam's thread with, so we don't really have to go anywhere at all with it, but I thought we could at least have some conversations about why we feel certain ways, even when disagreeing.

There is a lot of advice that gets passed seriously from one grower to the next in both hobbies, with no clear explanation of why. That is simply what I am trying to change in the community as I move forward personally, as I'm leaving college with more questions than I came with. While I'm an A student, I'm probably also a pain in their ass because if I feel differently than I am being told, I will ask for them to explain why? It's not to be difficult, it's to understand a different perspective better.

Without understanding different perspective, you stop learning. I hope to keep learning for many years.

4/8/2019 7:49:19 PM

Dustin, I understand that and get where you are coming from .You are not arguing , just trying to understand their opinion but yet it is thought of as arguing.

4/8/2019 9:26:00 PM

Grittyville, WA

Dustin... You're professors have taught you to be ready to learn. And what better thing could they teach you than that:)

4/9/2019 4:17:06 AM

Grittyville, WA

I think more often very specific questions get answers. For some reason these forums usually do justice to specific questions and sometimes fall short on broader brainstorming.

4/9/2019 4:23:50 AM