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Manitoba

I have a second, smaller fruit on another plant. It is in a crowded, too-small area, and now suffering.

It is showing green veins against a slightly yellowing background on the older leaves. I can't go running for soil tests, no money, etc. etc.

How can I pinpoint this as either Mg or Mn defiency? There is no insect problem here.

By the way, does it do any harm to feed this pumpkin plant with both Epsom salt (in water) AND chelated manganese at the same time if I can't figure this out? I understand that both forms of these minerals are acceptable as fertilizers.

Thank you.

8/11/2015 1:57:24 PM

Central NY

Pics would def help

8/11/2015 8:33:14 PM

Manitoba

I guess they would, but I don't have a digital camera.

8/11/2015 11:16:53 PM

Germany

It could be such a deficiency, and even if it isn´t it just wouldn´t hurt if you applied some mild fertilizing with epsom salts in a drench and chelated Mn as a foliar spray, but Mg and/or Mn deficiency could also arise from too wet soil (even if there´s still plenty of Mg and Mn available), so if the symptoms showed up after heavy rain or other heavy watering, then don´t overdo with the drench, better use Mg and Mn foliar and be patient.
If it happens to the oldest leaves only (the leaves attached to the first couple ft of the main vine), then I wouldn´t call it a problem and I wouldn´t try to cure something that isn´t a problem. How does the new growth look (vine tips and the next 4 or 5 leaves)?...any indicators for Mg or Mn deficiency there?
Also, sometimes Fusarium could make a plant look like suffering Mn deficiency, but I keep my fingers crossed for you that this isn´t the case.

8/12/2015 2:21:24 AM

Manitoba

Thanks for all you info. Come to think of it, we did have a lot of rain recently, and this particular pumpkin plant is not on much of a hill, and there is a spot near the root where the water doesn't drain immediately upon watering - but what can I do about that now? The vines are stuck to the ground with new rootlets. How can you tell I don't know a thing about growing pumpkins...

I am going to go and have a better look at the vine tips.

Do you know how long it might take epsom salt to go to work?

Also, what if this is garden-variety beginnings of iron deficiency instead? The soil pH is high.

Anyway, it is only a couple of leaves that are affected and the yellow is only slight - for now!

8/12/2015 10:16:24 AM

Germany

High soil pH (significantly above 7 - 7.2) make particular troubles with the plant availability of trace minerals such as Mn and Fe (so I agree with you the Fe could also be something that should go into your foliar spray). So what I would suggest now (because I assume that the discolorations arise from wet soil):

- No watering for a couple of days (until you have the impression that most of the soil is almost dry...not just on the surface but also into a depth of 1/2 ft).
- Foliar spray of a fertilizer which contains a combination of chelated trace minerals (Mn, Fe and I guess they also contain some Cu, Zn, B, Mo, but that doesn´t hurt), and add some epsom salts to this spray (1 g/L). Spray twice a week and make sure you spray the under side of the leaves (which is capable of absorbing nutrient solutions pretty fast).
- Spray a phosphite (like Aliette) once a week, it will help to strengthen your plant (it will help your plant fight some fungal infections).

8/12/2015 10:43:20 AM

Germany

Also, if vine tips appear pretty clustered with unexpectedly short internodes of the new growth, this could also arise from disease problems or could be caused by the wet soil (from poor availability of nitrogen). So if you have the impression that vine growth is sort of inhibited as well, then you should use a foliar spray which, in addition to the trace minerals, contains some urea (carbamide nitrogen).

8/12/2015 10:46:33 AM

Germany

MeToo!, did you already check out this nice summary of leaf problems by Matt DeBacco?

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Attachments/Leaf_Problems_Summer_2011.pdf

8/12/2015 10:57:05 AM

Manitoba

Hi, pumpking. Yes, I went to Matt's leaf problem summary yesterday. Then I went all over the ww web for more info.

My thinking is that so very many of these seemingly separate problems may have only a couple of basic causes, and it is virtually impossible to separate them out. What do you think? A. Drainage B. Nutrition. C. The previous 2 are intertwined. LOL

Vine tips look okay to me. The plant is generally healthy but too close to other crops. What a mess I made of things in my garden...

I am going to take your general advice to stop watering. Great...it's raining today, but not excessively. :)

I will also do a foliar spray. I have some chelated manganese capsules that my husband takes as a supplement and I will add that to the sprayer.

Now about that ALIETTE - why would that be better than old fashioned Bordo (of which I have some on hand), which is considered "organic" by the organic certifying agencies? I'm not into harsh chemicals.

I had my soil tested some years ago and they said Mn level was optimal.

Thanks so much for all your trouble, as it is deeply appreciated and needed.

8/12/2015 12:54:16 PM

Manitoba

Hi, I'm back. What do you think of adding some blackstrap molasses to water and adding that to the soil (not spray?) inasmuch as I have some on hand? From what I read, it has all those minerals you mention, and in good sized quantities, also. Tks. in advance for your opinion.

Also, should a substance with sugar, such as molasses, be sprayed on leaves or not?

8/12/2015 1:00:32 PM

valparaiso, in

I prefer to spray the molasses, but that is just me.

8/13/2015 12:40:52 AM

Manitoba

Gritch, how do you dilute the molasses?

8/13/2015 1:34:01 AM

Germany

As I haven´t used any copper chemicals (such as Bordo) on my AG plants, I can´t tell whether it would be an alternative to a phosphite. As to Aliette, I wouldn´t call it a harsh chemical, it decomposes into a simple phosphite which probably is the active ingredient. Instead of Aliette you can use any phosphite fertilizer (it is important that you use phosPHITE, not phosPHATE...the latter of which is in most fertilizers). Check this out (maybe you can find something similar)

http://www.plantfoodco.com/lib/pdfs/pfc-liquid-fertilizer/pfc-liquid-fertilizer-0-0-27.pdf

8/13/2015 2:27:18 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Molasses is water soluble. I put 1 cup in the hose end sprayer. It can also be diluted in a hand held sprayer with a little warm water

8/13/2015 7:32:56 AM

Manitoba

Thanks, lads, for all your recommendations. Why, I've never even heard of phosPHITE. Have to look that one up!

Hey, to add insult to injury: there was a sudden storm with hail yesterday. My smaller fruit (about 25 lb.) wasn't covered and now it's covered with pock marks plus one or two gouges.

I guess I can't be the first one!

8/13/2015 12:03:47 PM

valparaiso, in

Like Linus said just dilute it with water. After that shake it up, and spray.

If the pock marks aren't too deep the pumpkin will heal. How bad are the gouges?

8/13/2015 10:55:09 PM

Manitoba

The pock marks are negligible. The gouges on my small fruit (about 25 pounds) are not bad, maybe 1/8", and I see that they seem to be drying up. Keeping my fingers crossed. This fruit won't win any prizes this year, but I want it as big as possible for a jack o'lantern. :)

Thanks for your input regarding the use of molasses in the sprayer. Should I spray under the leaves, too, as pumpking recommended when we were discussing specific mineral supplementing???

8/14/2015 4:40:42 AM

valparaiso, in

1/8" isn't that bad. Keep an eye on them. I spray under the leaves. That is where the pumpkin absorbs most of the foliar spray from.

8/15/2015 12:54:26 PM

Manitoba

Thanks v. much for all your advice, Gritch. I did not know about spraying under the leaves.

8/16/2015 10:23:21 AM