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central Nc

I've read a lot of threads on here, but couldn't find any so early in the season. No root system other than stump so far. Been raining for a week, could that be the cause? Is it even worth trying to save?

5/21/2018 8:57:02 PM

Dillonvale, Ohio

If you don't try to save it, are you going to plant something else there? Probably not, so you may as well try to save it. Cover the stump with something, anything to protect it from the rain, put a fan blowing directly on the stump.

5/21/2018 9:25:29 PM

Dillonvale, Ohio

Clean up the stump, and paint straight Daconil on it. Some people have cut through the stump "with the grain" and used a pencil or sharpie to hold it open, which allows it to dry. Yours my be too young for that though

5/21/2018 9:31:07 PM

central Nc

Thanks wolf. Couple of questions. Do you think all the rain caused it? How long does it take to heal over? Do people keep the stump covered all year?

5/22/2018 7:01:57 AM

Westmoreland, KS

Wolfpack, foaming stump normally happen because of wet soil plus humidity. But this doesn't normally happen early on.

Could you take several pictures and post them. We'll be able to see exactly what is going on and we should be able to give you some more advise.

5/22/2018 10:38:13 AM

stoughton WI

Jake, I have foaming stump quite often. It's from to much pressure in the stump and no place for it to go. So it basically blows a hole in the weakest spot and if not caught early enough it sometimes gets a white foamy substance in that area. Some people are able to save them by splitting the main length wise and adding sulphur powder or captan. In my experience if there is a brown discoloration inside the vine I've had to remove the stump unless your able to get the brown (rot) out of it, and if you don't get it all it will continue to rot. You can sometimes catch it early if you keep an eye on your stumps and look for an area where it is wet. I tried to save a stump once and ended up having to remove a 3rd of the plant. Hopefully someone who has been able to save a stump will chime in. But in my patch I have to remove stump 100% of the time. Splitting main just above stump early on is supposed to help not get this

5/22/2018 12:49:15 PM

stoughton WI

I also keep my stumps covered at all times, I just leave the plastic on the hoops and cut 6 inches above the ground to alow air movement

5/22/2018 12:50:58 PM

central Nc

Jake, didn't get picture yet but I will.

I actually have 3 next to each other figuring I'd screw something up. This is my #1 plant, #2 pulled right off from same issue when I went to check it this morning. #3 is fine, but its a scraggly puny thing. I dug a little trench away from its stem. Just bought some sulfur powder--thats what people seem to fill holes with right?

5/22/2018 1:18:30 PM

central Nc

Rick, I was thinking about the pressure thing this morning. It rained a lot, and then one hot sunny day on Sunday with no rain. Monday is when I noticed the foam. I have two theories.

1) The roots are dumb and pumped until the stem burst.
2) During the day after the rain, transpiration from the leaves was in overdrive and created back pressure in the stem.

Either way, I'll bet it was water stress related. Please correct my novice assumptions if I'm way off track!

When you say split the main, is that like a 'relief valve'? Is that common to do?

5/22/2018 1:24:30 PM

Syracuse, NY

i wonder for everyone if it's possible to cut the end off of a pretty-good-sized vine much later in the plant's structure and rubber band an 'evacuated' (very flattened-out) ZipLoc bag onto the severed vine, to do the OPPOSITE of what growers do to retain water in the pumpkin before a weighoff---perhaps the water in the ZipLoc would remain viscous and NOT heal the wound, thereby allowing the pressure at the stump to have a place to go, further-on. JUST an idea. i have NOT had this actual problem, except with last year's 1756 H/J, which actually exploded one softball-sized fruit and split two others...it was actually kind of exciting. good luck to all.

5/22/2018 2:04:52 PM

Westmoreland, KS

Rick is exactly correct...I've tried saving a couple but no luck. However wolfpack is say no root system so I'm assuming this is a small plant?

5/22/2018 2:54:18 PM

stoughton WI

I believe it can happen pretty much any time the way these things grow and splits at the stump most often.

5/22/2018 6:54:45 PM

stoughton WI

Pumpkinpal, it's best to get the end dried out as fast as possible if you cut a stump off. If it stays moist it will continue to rot. Maybe need to try one of those vaccum sealers.

5/22/2018 6:56:52 PM

stoughton WI

If you have a foaming stump issue, you may want to split the main early on like some heavy hitters do

5/22/2018 6:58:09 PM

Pittsburgh, PA

I do believe that Quinn Werner, the Stelts and Jerry Rose take a fillet knife to all their stumps to keep this from happening. Not sure how they do it though. Maybe one of them will chime in with a quick how-to tip.

5/22/2018 11:21:10 PM

Syracuse, NY

sorry, rick, but i had said the other end of the plant, and 'just an idea', as all good ideas were @ one time, lol---you can re-read my comment, ignoring the part about 1756 H/J, although to ME, pumpkins popping is a good thing, lol---eg

5/23/2018 1:17:09 AM

Washington State

I think it’s 1). Does anyone have a real understanding of the foaming stump problem? I don’t... but here’s a flimsy theory for lack of a better one: Turgor / osmotic pressure is greatest at the stump, or the stump is the weakest spot for some reason & that’s why it foams there. Probably the phloem (with the sugars in it attracting too much water from the xylem) is what “explodes”? The sugars from the leaves are on their way down to the roots and they get concentrated there in the stump it’s a bottleneck for sugars... High sugar content in the plant (from the sunny day) and low mineral content in the rainwater plus humidity all act to boost the osmotic pressure? Does this same theory apply to little exploding pumpkins?

Perhaps cutting separates the xylem and phloem or...? Theoretically, anything that would reduce osmotic pressure would help, but the only thing I can think of, other than shade, would be to add fertilizer maybe phosphorous/ something that would benefit root growth... Because any fertilizer salt applied to the roots will reduce osmotic pressure in the plant? Plus if the roots have more nutrients maybe they can grow more and draw more sugars out of the plant which would also reduce the osmotic pressure.

Good luck. Sorry for any bad editing too tired to proof-read

5/23/2018 5:11:37 AM

Central Illinois

In the book Backyard Giants page 164 and 165 Ron Wallace had a scientist look at some vines and found several problems with fungus and bacteria Colletotrichum, pseudomonas fusarium. Excess nitrogen and moisture were present.

What worked for me, remove one or two of the first secondaries, and control yourself when pruning any wild unwanted vines,cutting more than a few per day will cause foaming

5/23/2018 9:14:11 AM

Syracuse, NY

okay, and if anyone does any pruning as such, please do the ZipLoc thing and see if the leakage stops, helps the problem or keeps dribbling out into the ZLB---there'd be no better time to try it and if ANY of these suggestions help, won't that be awesome for when U or I have a foaming stump? ewww...

5/23/2018 12:56:34 PM

central Nc

Here's your picture:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=289907

I guess it's easier when your decision is made for you...

5/23/2018 3:36:59 PM

central Nc

Sleepingbeauty, I like your train of thought. I think I had a Eureka moment today though. I was stuck on water pressure and embolisms when I stumbled onto an article. I get distracted when I start reading Calculus and just want them to get to the point, but my money is on this guy. He says its all about the xylem, baby. Evidently it is already in a 'metastable' state and minor changes in vapor pressure to water pressure can cause an embolism, or cavitation. Whatcha think?

5/23/2018 3:46:19 PM

central Nc

This instability of xylem water poses a direct threat to
the survival and photosynthetic productivity of plants.
The degree of tension that can exist in the xylem before
water makes a violent transition to the equilibrium va-
por phase is limited. This explosive phase change is
termed cavitation, and it occurs in plants subject to even
moderately low negative pressures associated with mild
water stress (Zimtnermann and Milburo 1982, Tyree
atid Dixon 1983, Tyree et al. 1984a,b). Immediately af-
ter a cavitation the xylem conduit begins to embolize,
i.e. fill with air as gases come otit of solution in sur-
rounding tissue to fill the void left by the cavitation
event. The danger of emboli for plants is that emboli
impair water conduction, the overall conducting capac-
ity of the xylem is reduced and mid-day water stress in
leaves increases.

5/23/2018 3:48:03 PM

Washington State

Wow... never knew that was even possible. I wouldnt think the squash vines are anywhere near rigid enough to cavitate like that but maybe you are on to something there. Of course there could also be some weakness or blockage in the stump due to an infection, which would then cause foaming, as baitman noted. But without proof... it’s a chicken or egg thing... which came first, the infection or the injury? Well it’s becoming a PhD level question / too much for me. Ps Anna was logged on here & accidentally posted from hers.

5/24/2018 2:02:11 AM

Grittyville, WA

Ok — so I was still logged on to her account. Pure genius here.

5/24/2018 2:24:57 AM

Syracuse, NY

Hell, at first, I thought the dog WAS the foaming stump!
Sorry if that was actually the end of the line for that vine. if and when i ever have a foaming stump, on a plant, at least, lol, i'll offer my findings to all concerned---eg

5/24/2018 5:24:33 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

Wolfpack, I wouldn't even have messed with a plant that young having issues that bad. It would have been an uphill battle all year. Hopefully you have a backup and it isn't something in your soil.

5/24/2018 8:25:03 AM

central Nc

Yeah Brandon, I can't bear to get much deeper into scientific literature, but it just sounded like a feasible explanation.

Pal, that dog WILL be a foaming stump if he pulls another plant!

Smallmouth, I agree. It was my nicest one though. The two biggest ones were foaming and the puny one is still going strong. Fingers crossed.

Thanks everyone for your input and sorry for asking about a problem that I'm sure has been beat to death!

5/24/2018 9:06:19 AM

stoughton WI

You can still grow a large pumpkin without a stump. These things will do amazing stuff if you have good rooting.

6/4/2018 8:40:56 PM