From

Location

Message

Date Posted

San Diego

I was researching that genetics behind some of the seeds I am going to plant when I ran into some confusion. I would like to see what you guys think of this because I know very little about the subject. I am only asking out of curiosity.

I am going to plant a 1791 Holland because I really like this cross but then I look at the 1649 Holland which is the 1791 X 1985 Miller. I instantly think that this is a good seed too, but after research on that seed, I wonder if it is any different. The 1791 is the 1495 Stelts X the 2009 Wallace. The 1649 is the 1791 X 1985 Miller which is the 2009 X 1725 Harp but the harp genetics are already contained in the 2009, and the 2009 is already contained in the 1791. So I wonder if there is any difference between the two. Does this make any difference?

I also see people spend massive amounts of money on the 2328 or the 2323 versus a much smaller amount of money on something like the 1870 Lieber or any other of the many 2009 Wallace self-crosses. At the same time, they say that a growers lack of skill has no affect on the genetic potential.

I realize this next question may be too big to answer on a message board, but if the grower's skill does not affect the genetics of a pumpkin, why do people keep crossing large pumpkins with results that keep getting heavier and heavier? This sounds like the genetic code is being change by growers skill. Correct me if I am wrong. I don't know this subject and would like to see what you say.

5/8/2015 12:07:55 AM

San Diego

Imaginary lineup:
2323 Meier
2009 Wallace
1870 Lieber
1873 Steil
2036 Glasier

They all look the same to me...

5/8/2015 12:18:26 AM

Germany

Genetics of two different seeds are never identical. Seeds within one pumpkin are like brothers and sisters. If two brothers (sons of the same parents) married two sisters (daughters of the same parents...a different couple, of course)...none of them twins (neither the brothers nor the sisters) and each of those couples had a son as a child, their sons´ genetics would be very very different, even though you can identify exactly the same combination of grandparents.

5/8/2015 12:49:43 AM

Germany

Growing seeds from big pumpkins gives you some confidence that there are some good traits in the genetics which could give you another big pumpkin. Seeds from small pumpkins could have the same excellent genetics, but it´s hard to identify them.

I´m growing a 619 Glasgow and a 1223 Radach this year. Try to find out why I consider these seeds could have excellent potential! Last year a 619 Glasgow (2009 Wallace x self) produced a 800+ pounder on a 95 sqft plant. The 1223 Radach (also 2009 Wallace x self) was grown on 290 sqft.

5/8/2015 12:53:58 AM

San Diego

That is pretty interesting.
Even with that being the case, I don't understand why someone would spend such a massive amount of money on a single Meier seed with the possibility that it may fall victim to one of the many risks throughout the year. Why not the 1870 Lieber!

5/8/2015 2:08:10 AM

Germany

There are some reasons:
- some people think that the size of the pumpkin the seed came from is the thing that matters (more than anything else)
- some people want to support the clubs through auctions
- some people spend so much money on patch prep etc. that the 400 $ for a 2323 Meier seed don´t make a big difference, but the growers don´t want to risk the loss of a precious season by growing a different seed.
...

5/8/2015 3:15:34 AM

Torrance, Ca.

Be careful of that 619 Glasgow,,,,,, this could be the next big thing!

5/8/2015 9:23:45 AM

President - GPC

....Genetics do matter.. Wize to do your homework.. never hurtZ to think outside the box either... Closed pollinations that are really closed. Ill never plant a seed if I dont trust the pollination effortZ, thatZ why I double cover my pollinatorZ. Simply using a rubber band to keep it closed in my mind iZnt enough. I've seen thoZe dirty beeZ force their way in. They are on a mission...But just because you got great genetics, it also takeZ HARD Work to see it to the end...
Remember what PapZ sayZ... The harder one workZ, the luckier one GetZ....Now go and GrowZem BIG.... GrowZem BIG or go home!

5/8/2015 9:43:40 AM

Colorado

The genetic expression is being changed by growing skill. The genetic code isnt affected by the grower.

5/8/2015 10:10:55 AM

San Diego

I see what you are saying.

As for doing homework and thinking outside the box...that is what the post is for.

5/8/2015 12:19:31 PM

San Diego

I need to clarify. I was not at all saying that genetics don't matter. Nothing can be farther from the truth. I was simply asking if it made any difference when you take a seed and keep crossing it with the same pollinator year after year. So far the answer has been "yes" because as Pumpking says, no two seeds are ever identical. What better place is there to go to find out why growers do what they do than to go to the growers themselves. This is my homework!

5/8/2015 1:16:51 PM

Colorado

Your imaginary lineup is almost entirely 2009 wallace background but if you grew that lineup you would get a wide range of genetic expression-more than you would expect.

5/8/2015 4:17:55 PM

San Diego

You are right, and now that I think about it, just the pictures themselves show the difference (2323, 2009, etc). Not in size, but the shape and color...should have thought of that before.

5/8/2015 8:22:25 PM

San Diego

I can't say that about size because they were grown under a different grower and environment.

5/8/2015 8:23:56 PM

North Smithfield, RI

Somebody is learning ! Keep it up !!!

5/9/2015 9:13:25 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Somebody is and can't wait to see him at pumpkimania with Vince in October:)

Great job bud!

5/9/2015 9:19:43 PM

San Diego

If I make it there...We will see what happens

5/9/2015 10:40:29 PM

Torrance, Ca.

If you you make it or not, its a great day to hang out and be with the only other crazy pumpkin growers like yourself in your area ;)

I went last year with nothing and was able to see Jim Fredricks take the day!

5/9/2015 11:05:11 PM

San Diego

Another question...Would being either the seed or the pollinator of a plant make a difference on the next generation? I ask this because I notice that people like to know which parent was the seed.

5/18/2015 10:52:37 PM

Germany

The next generation combines genetics of both mother and father, hence both plants (the one which grew the fruit and the pollinator plant) contribute to the next generation. Even though the seed combines 50% chromosomal genetics from the mother (the plant which grew the pumpkin) and 50% chromosomal genetics from the father (pollinator), it is likely that the seed has inherited a slightly larger fraction of genetics from the mother, because in addition to chromosomal genetics there is genetics in the cytoplasm, which will be handed down to the seed by the maternal plant.

5/19/2015 2:25:47 AM