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Owensboro, Ky.

These are the #'s in lbs./A from an analysis from Waters Ag Lab...from a sample of compost from the local county landfill...all input appreciated.
Phos 1094
Pot 3530
Mag 1305
Cal 6766
Water pH 7.4 Buffer pH 7.95
Sulfur 292
Boron 13.6
Zinc 53.2
Man 143
Iron 402
Copper 5.4
OM 14.9% CEC 27.3 Base Sat. K: 16.6 Mg:19.9 H 1.5 Ca:62.0
Can I add this to my pkn patch? Peace, Wayne

12/12/2007 10:10:16 PM

Long Island,New York

Wow....thats not compost !...thats municipal street sweepings and catch basin collections !.....just my 2 cents at a glance..

12/13/2007 3:28:03 PM

southwest MO

These #'s are very typical of compost. Ask for the metals and post back...

12/14/2007 9:29:05 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Thanks for replies...BG, what metals???arent Iron, zinc, copper, etc metals???
PS...I added approx 20 yds of compost from this same place 2 years ago, and have had 0 pkns make it past 30 days since then!!! Someone (Tremor, I think) said, after seeing soil tests after addition of this compost that my Boron #'s were near toxic level. Thanks for any and all input. Peace, Wayne
PS...Thanks for yer upfront honesty G!!!

12/14/2007 12:10:59 PM

southwest MO

Peace Wayne, Do you know what the parent materials that made this compost where? How big was the area you put 20 yrds on? When you say compost from a landfill it makes me want to run to.
If bio solids or pressed sludge where involved there will be many more metals that should have been tested. Cd Pb Cr Hg ect...This would be a better indicator of toxicity than what you have posted. Also you didnt post the EC or connductivity... If this result is missing the salts may be sky high. Although compost results very from parent material, extraction and prep method, as well as the way its reported (lots of variables here) these are NOT unusual #'s.
Comosted leaves for example (for simplification) can have Total Ca levels at 2% on a dry wieght basis... That is 40,000 lb/acre. Maybe 0.5% For Total K. This would be 10,000 lb/acre. This is just a couple parameters the list goes on.
There is no possible way to tell what the parent materials where from the set of #'s you have provided... I may not have all the anserws but when I post something I try to atleast contribute something.

12/14/2007 1:06:48 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

BG, thanks for yer response, and I will try and help you to help me. I don't know what the parent material are...I know they say city "sludge" is part of their compost process, and know that the county collects leaves, and delivers them to the landfill, and they collect horse manure from the local(not really so local) racetrack. I also have "run" away from this product. Please explain...Dc, Pb (lead?), Cr, Hg.? Is EC the same as Cation Exchange Capacity?
PS... I will try and post tonite, the results from a soil sample taken from what will be my new AG patch...hope you will respond to that also?? Peace, Wayne

12/14/2007 2:29:55 PM

Long Island,New York

Ok...maybe Im tainted. I had bad experiences with municipal compost and run from it whenever possible. At first glance I saw zn ,fe,and Boron at way higher levels than I'm familiar with here where I live. I have read that zinc has surpassed lead as one of the major concerns with street sweepings and with the zinc level so high and it being municipal my brain said street sweepings. The boron is more than 3 times higher than a soil test's upper recommended limit...but thats for soil. But then again Boron is toxic so its not a good one to be over on.Add 20 yards of 13.6lb/acreboron compost to your patch and you could be in trouble. Zinc is allowable in a soil test to somewhere around140lbs/acre so its not that high allowability-wise but crazy-higher than what I'm used to.Iron..hmm...my test is at 4lbs per acre...allowable is upwards of 80lbs/acre for a soil test...the compost is 402lbs/acre.

12/14/2007 3:33:37 PM

Long Island,New York

They just seem like high numbers for something to put in my patch in 20 yard dumps. The organics seem low also...most composts Ive come across that have published % organics are around 25% or so...or more. Again...maybe Im tainnted with my experience. Billy had his buddies bring me the bad stuff and now im gunshy...kinda like someone mentioning the Susquahanna Hat Company..........

12/14/2007 3:38:33 PM

southwest MO

Is this stuff still hot when you get it??
The EC or Connductivity or salinity is a measure of soluble salts.. Results shoud be reported in micro or milli mhos/cm. This is important as milli(mmhos) is 1,000 times greater than micro(umhos)or -> 1 mmhos = 1,000 umhos. Sometimes there is a /cm in there to but not always. dS/m is the same as milli(mmhos). Alot of times soil #'s are reported in umhos and compost #'s are reported in mmhos. (but not always)lol
The %OM is low for a finished product of the materials you described, even on a wet weight basis. Should be aprox. 60-70% on dry weight basis.
I'm not trying to impress anyone here just trying to point out how difficult it is to make recomendations with out ALL the specifics.

12/14/2007 4:14:27 PM

Sheridan . NY

Thats some stuff-- Id wear double rubber everything and a body suit before even getting close to it ---thats BAD BAD Stuff ---!!!!!!!!! ICK

12/14/2007 5:58:48 PM

Mt Vernon Ky

i can just see it now whyne in a rubber listen to craig

12/14/2007 6:07:12 PM

Mt Vernon Ky

wayne

12/14/2007 6:09:00 PM

southwest MO

I would love to know what qualifys it as BAD BAD...

12/14/2007 6:16:15 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Thanks for all the input...I did the major additions of this same compost a couple years ago,(before I learned to ask questions first) and have had no fruit make it past 30 days or so, since the additions.
BG, hot? still above ambient air temp for sure. and I will take another sample of it back to Water's Ag Lab and ask for a metals sample test!!!
I will soonly post the results, same format from my next years pkn patch...the one thing that amazes me about the next posting...in an area where none of this landfill compost has been added, is the still high Boron level!!! Let me know what ya think I need to do for my new pkn area, additions or just move away??? LOL Peace, Wayne

12/14/2007 6:31:37 PM

Sheridan . NY

BAD -BAD IS --Im sure it will give you hands light chemical burns if you handle it and dont wash it off for a while--

12/14/2007 6:44:51 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Boy G, just tryin to learn here...most Boron levels I have seen on other samples, that have been posted are real low in PPM...I know divide my #'s /A in half to get PPM, but if you divide 13.6 in half you still have a real high amount, yes?
Last report I read, listed .1ppm I think??? Just tryin to figure it out here?? Peace, Wayne

12/14/2007 6:48:12 PM

southwest MO

Alright, I'll share some ideas and will make a few assumtions along the way:
Lets assume the compost you had delivered was 1,000 lb/yard. Lets assume it was 50% moisture... That would mean on a dry weight basis your compost was 500 lb/yrd....
Now, your Boron level (witch we will assume is reported as Total B) tested out to 13.6 lb/acre or 6.8 PPM or 6.8 mg/Kg...
So, convert 500 lbs to kg = 227 Kg per yrd based on dry.
6.8mg x 227 = 1544mg of B per yard.. or 1.54g B per yrd.
Now Lets assume 2,000,000 lb acre for top 6" of soil. Convert to Kg = 909,090Kg per acre top 6".
Now at the rate of 1,544mg B per yrd It would take 590 yrds of material to raise B by 1 mg/Kg on 1 acre. Or 59 yrds of material to raise B 0.1mg/Kg.
Lets assume your patch area was 2,000 sq.ft. 43,560 divide by 21.8 = 2.71 yrds material to raise B level by 0.1 mg/Kg -> 27.1 yrds to 2,000 sq.ft. Would raise B by a full 1 mg/Kg

12/14/2007 8:36:00 PM

southwest MO

Now, nothing is gauranteed in the world of soil analysis but soil is usually extracted with some type of buffered solution and the results that you recieve are AVAILIABLE. If you had your soil samples analyzed for TOTAL #'s They would be higher.
So If you are looking at a soil sample result Vs. a Compost result You are not comparing the same things.
You said you've seen folks post there #' and Boron seemed really low. I'm betting youve been seeing availiable soil #'s and not Total compost #'s like you posted. Just because you add 1 mg/Kg Total B from compost does not mean when you measure your soil it will all show up. Remember you are only measuring a fraction of the B in you soil because its measured as availble.
I'm going to qualify the above mess because I've got 3 kids crawling on me and my calc. quit working about an hour ago. If I made mistakes I apoligize. I certianly do not intend to mis lead anyone and I have No agenda here other than to grow as big as I can!

12/14/2007 8:55:31 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

BG, not doubtin your intent, or knowledge, but you lost me somewhere in the #'s. Thanks for yer responses. Seriously thanks, but I am more confused now than before!!
I will not be adding any of this product to my new Pkn Patch...Peace, Wayne

12/14/2007 10:28:50 PM

southwest MO

Just make your own and just it on.. Thats what I do...

12/14/2007 10:50:43 PM

southwest MO

27.1 yrds to 2,000 sq.ft. Would raise Boron levels by 1.0 ppm.
I believe Salts and high pH would be the big problems with
this type of material especially with the amount you added.
If Boron is your main concern don't sweat it to bad... Boron leaches readily at lower pH's. Put some Sulfur on and get pH to around 6.0 Let it sit through the spring rains then cover crop on it for a while. Sorry to make it harder than it has to be.

12/14/2007 11:16:22 PM

Colorado

why risk it-if it screws up your soil its not worth it

12/15/2007 12:24:53 AM

Mt Vernon Ky

wayne what would it do if you add some to compost tea

12/15/2007 4:27:56 PM