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Joliet, IL

just wondering who else tried biochar in their soil this year and how your pumpkins are doing. i am not sure if it has helped, but it definately hasn't hurt growth in my patch this year. i read that tina and frank put some down in their patch this spring and had great success, but with the fantastic job at ammending their soil this year and their hard work ethic and great seed choice, it would be hard to pin point how much the biochar played into their success. i will let them speak for themselves on that matter. anyone else try it?

8/26/2009 8:42:08 AM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Shazzy, The real issue is: is it really bio char? Biochar is produced through pyrolysis or gasification — processes that heat biomass in the absence (or under reduction) of air.
There are many different ways to make biochar, but all of them involve baking biomass in the absence of air to drive off volatile gasses, leaving carbon behind. This process is called thermal decomposition, and it comes in three main varieties: pyrolysis, gasification and hydrothermal carbonization.
I am not an expert, nor have I tried, but I did a bit of research. It seems that there is a very fine line between doing it correctly and making an end product that is no different then ash from a fire place or wood stove.
Either way I dont see how it can hurt unless you are spreading wood ash and your potassium is high.

8/26/2009 9:05:52 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Why would a grower use it?

Activated charcoal is often used to remediate or neutralize herbicides but I can't think of any other use.

Some garden products do more to benefit the manufacturer/distributor/retailer than the gardener.

8/26/2009 10:41:48 AM

Joliet, IL

tom,
i put down charcoal green activated biochar made by a company called carbonchargroup. activated in this sense means soaked in compost tea, fish and seaweed. anyone can read about it at buyactivatedcharcoal.com

i discussed biochar with some heavy hitters over the winter and some said they were thinking of trying it or making their own. the long term benefits, in theory, is more glomalin (spelling) as the microspopic network of pores in the biochar becomes a place for mych fungi to attach to and eventually forms mini nuggets of nutrients encapsulated by glomalin. if you do any research on it at all, it is hard to believe that all that information and scientific studies on it are just a way for garden suppliers and manufacturers to sell us something we do not need. there are barely any companies out there that do sell it at this point. and why wouldn't a giant pumpkin grower explore new ways to attempt to increase soil production. isn't that what we do, try to push the limits more and more every year. i am sure that hard line old timers didn't buy into mych fungi right away. "oh mych is just a fluke, it is in the soil already" or "why put it at every tap root when a sprinkle when planting can innoculate the mych. for the whole patch. that seems like a waste of time and money to put it at every tap root." next thing you know 5 lbs a plant is the norm.

a closed mind will never try or even attempt to try anything new. with that said, i have no idea if it works or not, and myself and tina and frank finders have used it and we both have done pretty good this year. we are the only 2 that i know of the tried it this year. this is why i put the post out if anyone who has tried it, to speak up with some results. over time it will prove itself out to be a waste or beneficial. in the mean time, we will never know unless it is proven out one way or another.

8/26/2009 6:39:21 PM

Joliet, IL

i made a mistake in that last post, activated means activated, i meant innoculated as far as the goodies that it is soaked in.

8/26/2009 6:52:57 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Shazzy, maybe you took my post the wrong way.
I am 100% for thinking outside of the box and trying new things, I wanted to simply state that as long as it is done correctly and it is really bio char, not just burnt wood I think it is an amazing idea, I have done alot of research on it and what scares me is the potential for people to make a product similar in appearance to bio char.
I commend you for trying something new, its the only way this sport/hobby can grow.

9/5/2009 9:19:12 PM

Joliet, IL

tom, no offense at all. it just struck me odd when tremor said why would a grower try it? i would have thought he understood the science of it already, but seemed quick dismiss it as not valuable or just a garden manufacturer's gimick product. it is easy to dismiss new things that sound too good to be true and that i understand. but this is a product that i believe has many longer term benefits to your soil in glomalin amounts, the glue that holds soil together and is now believed to be the major determining factor to the productivity of your soil. and the worse thing that can happen if you try it is you waste some cash and it makes your soil a little darker to help absorb more spring sun. 8 out of 10 opinions have been similar to tremors when talking with other growers about it, so i think that last post was meant to go out to the doubters who think its just a waste of money.

9/5/2009 10:50:02 PM

South East

We used it shazzy, it helped us get our soil in shape.

9/5/2009 10:53:43 PM

Fredericksburg, Virginia

Shazzy,

I used Cowboy brand hardwood lump charcoal this season, and made a small quantity of hardwood chracoal. I only had enough to apply to my planting hole, and the area around the hole. I also soaked the charcoal in foliar fertilizer to innoculate it too.

Unfortunately I did not use a control plant to compare the results.

Virginia Tech is conducting research into the use of biochar on crops, and should have some results out this fall or winter.

Tom V

9/5/2009 11:25:26 PM

South East

Let me explain: we used the biochar for adding the carbon,,and for water retention. The produkt we used had substrates and microbial additives. I think in working soil the way growers do, biochar can be a great tool. There are many benefits, to many no name. Its like for all the produkts growers use,,none of them alone wil grow a giant, but all of them togheter wil. Biochar wil be used again here next year.

9/5/2009 11:43:11 PM

Roselle, IL GJGEM@sbcglobal.net

I think Shazzy should be the poster boy for Biochar

9/6/2009 10:01:23 AM

Joliet, IL

georgie boy should be the poster boy for the "JerkStore". they always have plenty of product in stock. lol.

9/6/2009 10:21:15 AM

Roselle, IL GJGEM@sbcglobal.net

Just trying to keep you on your toes.... I hope that crane works out for you. I will have my boys with their steel tip cowboy boots on waiting to assist. ;)

9/6/2009 1:27:34 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

I spoke to one of the soil scientists at the University of Guelph about it last winter, after he wrote an article in an soil publication up hear last winter. His feeling is that because our soils are so pumped up with organic matter already, the bio-char wouldn't have much impact. In encouraged me to try some. His feeling was that plain old charcoal would work. I didn't bother to try ant this year.

9/6/2009 6:35:37 PM

Joliet, IL

http://www.buyactivatedcharcoal.com/product/GREEN-SALE

this is the direct site for anyone interested in trying the product i used which is charcoal green biochar made by the carbonchargroup.

county kid, i here what you are saying from many different people, but the more you learn about mych. fungi and glomalin and the essence of soil, you can never have too much square surface area for the nugget formation that occurs in this process, and biochar done right is like never ending caves of porous areas that are strongholds for your soil to establish itself. i don't believe at all that because your soil is high in organincs that the biochar will be less effective, biochar is not that more rich in carbon than humic acid and reacts similarly in the long run. do the science. carbon caves for natural nuggets of gluey glomalin. that is it basically it in a nut shell in my eyes.

9/15/2009 8:25:49 PM

Fredericksburg, Virginia

Shazzy,

Just out of curiosity, how much did you apply per square ft?

A website that I check on has several studies on the use of Terra Prata, and I thought that the site might intrest the folks that are considering using activated charcoal.

http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/node/1408

Terra Prata study

http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/node/1398

another Terra Prata Study

Tom

9/16/2009 7:13:16 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

shazzy said

""... tom,
i put down charcoal green activated biochar made by a company called carbonchargroup. activated in this sense means soaked in compost tea, fish and seaweed. anyone can read about it at buyactivatedcharcoal.com

i discussed biochar with some heavy hitters over the winter and some said they were thinking of trying it or making their own. the long term benefits, in theory, is more glomalin (spelling) as the microspopic network of pores in the biochar becomes a place for mych fungi to attach to and eventually forms....clipped.... that hard line old timers didn't buy into mych fungi right away. "oh mych is just a fluke, it is in the soil already" or "why put it at every tap root when a sprinkle when planting can innoculate the mych. for the whole patch. that seems like a waste of time and money to put it at every tap root." next thingyou know 5 lbs a plant is the norm.

a closed mind will never try or even attempt to try anything new. with that said, i have no idea if it works or not, and myself and tina and frank find....clipped for length.....in the mean time, we will never know unless it is proven out one way or another.doubters who think its just in""

After 30 years I've seen a lot of miracles come & go but in this case I simply confused *biocar* for *charzorb* (activated charcoal) which would have ZERO impact on soil biology unless the soil was tainted with herbicide.

These manufacturers are running out of unique names so they're unintentionally creating confusion. They need top give more credit to scientists & less to their marketing talking heads. LOL

Anything that increases soil biology &/or CEC is OK in my book...if it works in a quantifiable fashion.

TERRA PRATA...These ancient soils are interesting if not all that practical. Kinda like letting the Japanese buy all out old growth forest lumber. Once it's gone it's gone. It better pay big dividends because they won't

9/16/2009 10:00:54 PM

Joliet, IL

anyone interested can email me direct. i will keep this topic off the board and stop wasting everyone's time with my nonsense.

9/16/2009 10:27:30 PM

Joliet, IL

you think i am trying to create terra prata in joliet illinois. lol. i am only creating a carbon cave network for mych to work effectively in long term management of my soil. time will tell tremor. you know a lot, but you are still a republican in my book, lol. socialism for everyone and biochar for all my friends.... yaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

9/16/2009 10:35:16 PM

Joliet, IL

Biochar’s Fractal Dimension

http://peaksurfer.blogspot.com/2008/10/biochars-fractal-dimension.html

get through the boring first half of the article and get to the second half about surface area of biochar and benefits to soil.

10/30/2009 6:47:09 PM

Va

I would love to see your results,
Here are some updates on Biochar soils research and policy;

All political persuasions agree, building soil carbon is GOOD.
To Hard bitten Farmers, wary of carbon regulations that only increase their costs, Building soil carbon is a savory bone, to do well while doing good.

Biochar provides the tool powerful enough to cover Farming's carbon foot print while lowering cost simultaneously.

Another significant aspect of small scale bichar systems is removal of BC aerosols by low cost ($3) Biomass cook stoves that produce char but no respiratory disease emissions. At Scale, replacing "Three Stone" stoves the health benefits would equal eradication of Malaria.
http://terrapretapot.org/

The Biochar Fund :
Exceptional results from biochar experiment in Cameroon
The broad smiles of 1500 subsistence farmers say it all ( that , and the size of the Biochar corn root balls )
http://biocharfund.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=55&Itemid=75

There are dozens soil researchers on the subject now at USDA-ARS.
and many studies at The up coming ASA-CSSA-SSSA joint meeting;
http://a-c-s.confex.com/crops/2009am/webprogram/Session5675.html

Research:
The future of biochar - Project Rainbow Bee Eater
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/features/20090211-20142.html

Japan Biochar Association ;
http://www.geocities.jp/yasizato/pioneer.htm

UK Biochar Research Centre
http://www.geos.ed.ac.uk/sccs/biochar/

Carbon to the Soil, the only ubiquitous and economic place to put it.
Cheers,
Erich

12/7/2009 3:02:39 PM