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Atlanta, Georgia

Hi Everyone!
You probably know that this coming year will be my last year growing here in Germany and I'd love to win first place at Ludwigsburg as would all of you.

All I propose is that those of us with great seeds should share some with the other growers who showed up at Ludwigsburg if they don't have such great seeds.
There were 4 pumpkins there from my 595White03EST pumpkin and I'd like to send proven ones instead this year.

It's still early to think of concrete plans for our 2005 seed line-up but I'd like to know who would be willing to participate with me in this plan. It would mean that we get contact info for all the growers and decide on a seed or seeds we could send them after they tell us what seeds they have and plan to grow IF we have a better proven seed to send them.....

Any ideas to expand on this topic? Maybe it's not even a good idea but I'd like your thoughts and hate to see someone plant an unproven seed when I have many proven ones over 1000lbs. that I can't do justice to myself.

10/5/2004 3:01:58 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

I hated the terrible loading and unloading situation in Ludwigsburg this year and plan to contact the person in charge of the Castle grounds and Jucker to see if something better can be arranged for next year.

The other thing I will do here in my area is to post an advertisement in the Stuttgarter Zeitung(newspaper) offering seedlings the first week of April to anyone who wants to come get them.

Somebody kick me in the head if I'm flipping out please!

10/5/2004 3:09:27 AM

Wroclaw, Poland (51 N, 17 E)

I am palnning now to grow Peter's Frei seed, but I'll have enought place for 2 big plants next season. So I would love to recieve some proven seeds from You. Thanks.

10/5/2004 9:10:44 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

Michel,

I agree with you on the un- and uploading situation in Luwdwigsburg. We arrived there pretty early and like that unloading was no problem as there were no other growers at that time and still enough room for the car, trailer and forklift.
Later, however, when more growers arrived the situation was worse.
But the worst was the uploading after the weighoff when all growers wanted their pumpkin to be loaded up as soon as possible. There was just not enough space for all the cars, trailers, etc. inside the park...

cont.

10/5/2004 11:00:34 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

cont.

Concerning the seed collaboration idea I have to disagree with you.

Apart from the growers placing first to sixth and a few other growers (e.g. Rainer, Gregory) I assume that nobody is aware what those "top, proven" seeds are.

Why should I give out seeds like the 842 Eaton, 845 Bobier, 801.5 Stlets, 1097.5 Beachy, 1260 Weir, 735 Pukos, 805 Pukos, etc. etc. to growers who just see them as one single pumpkin seed like any other pumpkin seed?

I guess only those growers really committed to growing these pumpkins know what these seeds are worth and treat them with the required respect. And those who know it already have those seeds....

I think we are just not doing the seeds justice if we let inexperienced growers grow them.

In addition to that I think that our German climate doesn't allow us to really max out the potential of any of those top notch seeds. In order to do the seeds justice the wise thing would be to give them to those growers in better climates (US, Canada) - but who would like do that?

In my opinion the only thing we can influence by our seed selection are factors like shape and color because they are not dependant on the weather but we can't max out the weight potential of any of those seeds here in Germany.

So, I still think that the best thing we, Germany's best growers, can do with these seeds is to grow them ourselves as we can do the best with them what is possible in our climate.

I am absolutely convinced that any of the less experienced growers will have exactly the same results no matter if they are growing one of the "top seeds" or just any of our own crosses between the "great ones".

Giving out those seeds means wasting them for me.


Martin

10/5/2004 11:01:11 AM

Itzetown City

Noone force you to give your seeds away!

10/5/2004 11:31:25 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

Martin,
Thanks for your very nice reply!
I know that you fundamentally think differently about it than I do and I agree that it's a shame to give an 845 Bobier away and I have no seeds anywhere near the potential of that one anymore.

All I meant for example is that the newer growers with one year experience deserve to have a proven seed such as a 1038 Emmons or 1005 Mombert or something similar instead of an unproven 595 White 03 seed or 459 White 04 seed.

As for me I have more than enough proven seeds that I'll never be able to plant and would like to see some grown to give the newer growers at least a little bit better chance and a few more kilos than they might normally have.

I don't have one seed from the list you mentioned and I know you have them but how many seeds does one person need to hang on to until they can't germinate anymore?

Best regards and thanks for the input. Your point is very well taken and maybe my message was not 100% clear as always but maybe you see my point a bit more too.

I would not of course give my 1104.5 Hester seed away for example but don't know if I should even try it yet or wait till I have my new patch and more experience in the states.

Danke,
Your friend as always, Michel

10/5/2004 4:19:26 PM

Atlanta, Georgia

Pumpkin Lover,
You know you're on my list as always.
We'll talk later.
M

10/5/2004 4:23:13 PM

Atlanta, Georgia

I hope everyone in this thread realizes that Martin and I are friends but disagree only on this point about seeds. He likes to keep them private and I don't care who knows what I have.
There are merits to both sides so please no slamming...

Only 8 more months till we start growing again...geesh!
Michel

10/5/2004 4:26:56 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

Michel,

I now see what you mean. You mean the proven but not too expensive seeds.
That's ok and reasonable and I would be more than happy to give you some seeds like those you mention for your plans. Others of that calibre would be a 419 Pukos, 996 Emmons, 713 Kurkowski or a 963 Stucker, right? That makes some sense for sure!

Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Martin

10/5/2004 4:34:50 PM

Wroclaw, Poland (51 N, 17 E)

I think simmilar as AMrtin We (rarther You) shouldn't give very good seeds to 1st year growers. But there are few growers, including me, who are now quite experienced, but can't afford themselves top, or even proven, good, seeds.
Seeds for 1st year growers should be ordinary seeds from one of our pumpkins wihout super genes... jsy normal seeds. When growers will gain some experience they may have a try woth good, proven seeds.
Gving away good seeds may improve the level of pumpkin growing in Europe. Thats what I think.
BTW. TOmmorow (wednesday) I'll cut the biggest pumpkin off the vine. It started to develop small stem crack, but nothing serious.

10/5/2004 4:45:11 PM

Itzetown City

.. our pumpkins without super genes..?
My this year best reach only 237 lbs, in due to illness, work etc. I could´nt give em the needed care, but it´s the 1121 Ford x 977 Hester. Without super genes?

I´m sure an experienced NH or PNW Grower would grow a 1000+ out of my 237 seed.

Michel, what´s about the 1104,5 you wrote above cuz I´ve em in my stock.

10/5/2004 5:20:25 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

Werner,

Consider yourself lucky! The 1104.5 grew a 1420lbs pumpkin for Jack LaRue. It should have great potential if you grow it yourself or you can get another really good seed for it in a trade.... I'd trade it away as the 1420 was trribly ugly!

Martin

10/5/2004 5:28:50 PM

Cologne / Germany

Hi Martin, Michel, Werner,
read this one:
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=90812
Maybe we just don´t care enough about the "good results" we already had and don´t try to establish our own strains fitting to our environment with the seeds we already produced.
Look at Jos, he produced 417kg with an unproven belgium seed. Or Jantje from Belgium with another 400kg+ from a Frei seed.
The US growers - in my opinion - did it the same way for years till they reached some incredible results. We instead act like reinventing the wheel every season since we don´t give our own european seeds a try. Just a thought.

Michel, the seedling supply is a great point. I´m just working on it for my own 2004 seeds with Degenhardt Neisse who organized the NRW state fair at Burg Konradsheim. It´s a very good start for new growers because of the good genetics - no garden store stuff for sure and ready to be planted in May. Why not exchanging our seeds with proven genetics to produce seedlings for newbees over here? If you want to create and spread new strains, that´s where to start them:-)

Ingo

10/5/2004 8:58:51 PM

Atlanta, Georgia

This is turning out to be exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping for.

Martin,
Now you understand exactly what I meant....proven but not the best seeds.

Ingo,
My plan as I told Martin at Ludwigsburg is to plant my own seeds next year from my 790 Daletas x 419 Pukos and to plant a male pollinator each year that has the characteristics I want to introduce into my own seeds...
This year I'll plant Martin's 801.5 Stelts x Self seed to use as a male pollinator since it has beautiful skin and color. It will be in my home patch because I can start it earlier and am assured of having enough males from it once the other plants have females.

I have room for one or two pumpkins and that's where I'll try some proven seeds to see what I can get.
cont...

10/6/2004 1:21:47 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

I would just like to see more people introduced to giant pumpkin growing because as we all know it can be very rewarding when things go well.

I was thrilled my first year with 101 Kg!

As for seed starting it's just as easy for me to germinate 24 seeds at a time as to germinate just my own 8 or so (4 plants and 4 backups), and that's why I thought of advertising to give away seedlings. The more growers the merrier as long as Ludwigsburg can figure out a better parking arrangement for us.

Boehnke,
It's true that you might be able to trade your 1104.5 for a great seed but probably not this year since there are way too many of them floating around but in a year or two it may fetch you a good trade. If you don't plan to plant it then you should probably just hold on to it in my opinion.

10/6/2004 1:32:06 AM

Itzetown City

At first, thanks for the information about the 1104,5.
And I´m with Michel. If the growers around me (also first time growers) be able to get seeds with potential, why not? Its a sport, and all should have the same chance. But Martin is right too, thoose seeds should not waste to be planting on a manure pile.

10/6/2004 2:37:44 AM