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Springfield, Missouri

We keep trying to do vigor crosses, sometimes this works and other times it doesn't. Why dont we use the biggest genes possible to improve squash? Pumpkins and squash are compatible, and im sure you could get your vigor cross there, but why arnt we using 1068s, 1041s, and 998s to improve squash genetics? In my opinion we should cross some of the best pumpkin genetics in with the best squash 848 Mackenzie, and then use selective breeding to weed out all of the orange so we get bigger and better squash?

4/27/2008 1:11:40 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

It was done in the past so why not now? Would the mother or pollinator be the better choice?

I think we see a lot of selfing in Squash only because most folks only grow one a year if any at all.

848 Mack x 1689 Jutras?
or
1689 Jutras x 848 Mack?

4/27/2008 1:44:37 AM

Springfield, Missouri

If it were me i would use the squash as the mother. That way you could cross the pumpkin with a pumpkin. I would also not limmit myself to one fruit or pollinator on the squash. The offspring will have a good chance of not being green, so get back to green you would self, sib, or use a half pumpkin hybrid. This is why it would be good to have multiple squash on one plant all pollinated with different pumpkins.

4/27/2008 11:07:48 AM

Springfield, Missouri

Ex.
848 Mack X 1041.5 Mckie,
848 Mack X 664.5 Liggett,
848 Mack X 998.6 Pukos,
848 Mack X 1068 Wallace,

All have a relitivly low % of going green because orange is dominant.

so we cross the first two and the second two

now we have a higher chance of going green around 25%.
So next you would have to plant at least 4 of each cross to get a green one. Most people dont have room to grow 8 plants anyway, so distribute the seeds and self them, or make skinny plots.

4/27/2008 11:35:59 AM

Springfield, Missouri

sorry didn't know that would happen lol

4/27/2008 11:36:50 AM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

I agree with Steve on the selfing issue. I believe that is why we have a "lag" in the squash world. Crossing a vigiourous pumpkin into a squash has been don quite a bit. The problem is getting the seeds planted. Squashers will likely only plant the top two or three squash seeds at the most. If you produce such a cross, you will likely be the only one to grow it so you cant get enough replications to see any trend. I feel the best course of action is to get more crossing going on within the True green squash genetic pool. i.e. 848 Mackenzie, 1055 Pitura, 824 Brunst, 792 Olsen, 549 Wells and a few others.

John

4/27/2008 12:00:18 PM

Cincinnati,OH

Try a 1012.5 Pitura 07 (1055* Pitura x 1231 Pukos)
http://www.beachyseeds.com/Order_FormPrem07.pdf
Tom Beachy has done some other squash x pumpkin crosses as well

4/27/2008 12:23:14 PM

Rhode Island

just a wild guess but three years ago the gpc changed its color rules for pumpkins and squash
in the past a percentage of greeen in a pumpkin was used to determine if a fruit was judges a pumpkin or squash.
it was a poor way of judging and also led to misjudgements all aver the place
now in the gpc to be judged a squash you must be 100 percent green/grey/blue ( no white -yellow orange ,etc ,showing.
if you pollinated a true squash with a heavy pumpkin it would take several years to grow the green completely back into the off spring.
in the mean time a lot of people who like to grow green squash for competition would be afraid to plant the offspring.

4/27/2008 9:57:56 PM

Netherlands

I heard of a grower thinking about doing a 1234* x 1450 cross this season which should be interesting seeing as that particular 1450 threw half green last year and the plant was cloned.

The one problem I see is having to cross so much squash back into these kinds of crosses in order to get green again that there isn't much of the original pumpkin genes left in it.

This year I will be going with the 1234* x 824* and reverse.

4/28/2008 2:06:01 AM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

Brad

I like that cross. I am thinking of 1055* x 824*.
(Sorry, not wanting to hijack thread!)

John

4/28/2008 9:58:41 AM

Netherlands

I just started up a 1018 Van Hook (selfed 1450 Wallace) which was 11.2% heavy and half green. Would like to cross it with the 1234. That would make a 3rd generation selfed 1068 x 3rd generation selfed 848.

4/28/2008 10:37:39 AM

Ontario, Canada.

I have two crossed with the 848* x 1420 LaRue from last season that produced the 752* Landry 07, and its reverse 1420 x 848*. I intend to grow the 752 this season but it may throw orange and thus requiring the need for another year or two of selfing or back crossing green to get true green again.

Quinn Werner grew out his 1053*, 06 from a 848* x 898 Knauss cross. It produced his 1221 pumpkin and the 1097* Razo last year. The Razo fruit was classified green but I'm not sure just how dark it was. Either the of these two fruit maybe a nice to try.

The main problem we have is most of like to grow big. It becomes hard to dedicate a spot for a couple of years in a breeding program. It is a lot of resources devoted to a project that is rather iffy at best.

4/28/2008 1:12:40 PM

Western NY

i'll be growing my 291* this year (703* Smith x 865 Mettler). 703* is selfed twice, going back to the 935 Lloyd, making this hopefully very similar to a green version of the 723 Bobier.

That particular 865 plant threw a very white pumpkin, so who knows what will happen with the 291*, but if it goes green, it may be a good squash seed to mix with the current squash hot seeds.

4/28/2008 1:42:37 PM

new middletown ohio

big, the 1097 was dark green, true sq.

4/28/2008 9:24:30 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

Wow, I did not know so much breeding was required to get the green and keep it.

I had it backwards, I thought that making them orange was harder, but now I realize its the GREEN that is harder to get.

Makes sense because the record squash sort of are a few years behind the Pumpkins, I always wondered why that is if green was dominant.

Looks like according to you guys it is because it is not dominant at all.

Maybe I will grow one this year. I will call it the Incredible Hulk. “Hulk Squash”!

1/10/2009 5:25:03 PM