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Colorado

Seems like if you take a (Ps x ss) cross and grow it out, you get about 50% green progeny and 50% pumpkin (assuming a simplified analysis of Ps, Ps, ss, ss). From what I've seen, this is pretty much consistently observed, regardless if it is really genetically this simple or not, and regardless if any of the "big" pumpkin genes end up in the resulting squash.

So.... if you take a (Ps x Ps) cross and grow it out, would you have a small chance (25% or so) of getting a squash assuming PP, Ps, sP, ss progeny?

Just curious if anyone has tried this, and what results you saw. For example if you crossed a 1531 haist with a 806 shymanski, would you have a 25% chance of growing a squash?

10/24/2012 12:38:24 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

The s is so resessive in Ps fruit that the rate of expression is way less in a cross like this. All "Pumpkins" have the ressive s in there and are Ps. If your assumption was correct, we would see a lot more random squash than we do.

Now, my reasoning that all "pumpkins" are Ps is that if you cross just about any "Pumpkin" into a squash, you will result in some squash. If some "Pumpkins" were PP, you would not see any squash in the first generation.

Just my thoughts

john

10/24/2012 1:02:39 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

Im sure this post has a few people scratching there heads.....:p

10/24/2012 1:03:36 PM

Cedar City, Ut

john,, i had to re-read this twice .. but i understand it ,, i think,, lol,,, best of luck to the greenheads out there ,, a new season,, will be upon us all,, soon enuff,, Curt

10/24/2012 1:56:58 PM

Corryton, TN

You may be right John, but if most pumpkins were not PP and they were Ps would we not see approx 25% of most pumpkin X pumpkin crosses be green. I have yet to see a squash x newer genetic pumpkin cross produce a greenie. Just my opinion but I "think" the green/orange is a single simple PP/ss relationship for the main background color. I also "think" there are a multitude of other genes that affect ticking, spots, blotches, stripes and possibly a diluter gene causing the various lighter shades in both squash and pumpkins.

Pete - that very cross is in my plan for 2013 along with using my 604 Cantrell (1020 Jutras x 1161 Rodonis), pollinated by the clone off the 1725 Sweet plant, and the 841 Turner (1502 Wallace x 800 Neily). Really hoping to get a 1221.5 Robinson to blend in also.

10/24/2012 2:06:27 PM

Madison,Wisconsin

I grew the 1531 Haist (Ps) and backcrossed with the 915* (ss) Haist. I have seen 10 plants from the combination and 5 have had orange fruits and 5 have had green fruit. That would lend credence to the simple dominant/recessive background color trait. If that is true then I would think the combination of Ps x Ps would produce 25% green. I have never tried it so I don't have any evidence.

10/24/2012 5:49:42 PM

Muddy Waters

While I'm scratching my head John.I think I will go take a Ps.lol

10/24/2012 7:50:46 PM

Madison,Wisconsin

lol

10/25/2012 5:43:09 PM

Cedar City, Ut

i did an sP cross a couple yrs,, back,, it was small,, was green,, maybe try a trailer this season,, just to see what it throws out

10/25/2012 6:40:10 PM

Willamette Valley, Oregon

Pete - From the data I've seen your calculations are correct. The F2's should throw 25% squash - on average. You'd want to grow more than 4 plants though because it would be easy to get 4 "pumpkins" and no greenies just by chance. You might want to grow at least 6 or 8 plants out to the first female stage, just to ensure you get 1 green one. Then cull the plants that make yellow baby fruit and keep the light green baby fruit plants. - I think this is why not many people do this. Who wants to mess with so many plants. Although it would be informative and pretty cool.

BTW - 913* Boyce 2011 is another 50:50 fruit to check out. The pollinator was a 1634 Werner that was 1421 lbs.

John - I guess I AM scratching my head. :) I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Pete is talking about intentional Ps pumpkins where we know one parent was a squash. I'd be interested to take a look at the specific fruit and crosses where you have seen squash come from a AGxSQ cross at the F1 stage. It seems possible if the "pumpkin" was actually AGxSQ. I'm skeptical that would be widespread though in the modern AG's, based on all the AGxSQ and (AGxSQ) x SQ results out there.

10/26/2012 1:35:27 PM