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Hinckley MN

Some AGs seem to have very light green vine color on young vines. The squash I have grown seem to have a darker green vine color. if a specific cross throws 25% squash and 75% pumpkins, can you select for the squash at a young age based on vine color?

2/3/2015 11:14:00 AM

Slate River,Ont. Canada

2012 I grew 1056 hebb. Everything was a darker green right down to female blossom. About a week after pollination it turn bright yellow with green stripes. Ended up with a 467lb. bright orange kin. Nicest looking pumpkin I ever grew,but not what I wanted.
Been growing squash now for 7 years and have ended up with cream colour to dark green but never seen any sign as to what colour squash will end up. Wish I knew. Always disappointing especially after investing apart of garden for a nice greenie.
One thing I have noticed though is if you do get a true greenie they are harder to set than a kin and are very likely to split.
Love the challenge!Will grow at least one.
Best of luck!
Gary

2/3/2015 1:12:49 PM

President - GPC

Agreed Monster...I crossed a 848 MackenZie with a 1016 Daletas.... could beleive it started green, then went bright orange..... still got some of those seeds.....but not enough patches....

2/3/2015 1:28:02 PM

Corryton, TN

I'm reluctant to say yes. I'm going from memory here with no documentation. Of the 9 615's I had last year 4-5 were pumpkin females at bloom. And I do recall noticing the vines of most were yellowish striped with green. The 3-4 females that were what I call "stripies" but mostly green shaded at bloom had green vines but they too would produce a pumpkin just as monsterdog found out. The 2 green 615's I grew had green vines. I'm not sure enough of the 25/75 seeds have been grown to give a definite answer. Other crosses may be different. What I have seen is that most of my vines set a female from 6-9 ft which for most of us is usually too early and side vine growth is inadequate and most of the hard work (vine burying)has not yet begun. This gives you the opportunity to evaluate your female/vine.

2/3/2015 2:02:37 PM

Willamette Valley, Oregon

Hey Ben, I'd say 'maybe' on the vine color as an indicator, but as Dave said, I'd wait until the first baby females show up to decide.

Look for a nice green female ovary for your best chances of a greenie at harvest. (although no guarantees that it will end up completely meeting the color requirements, but that's the case for 100% squash too.) Anything with a remotely yellow or green-yellow striped ovary will probably not be a squash and those can be pulled ASAP.

I'd recommend starting 8-10 F2 plants if you want to be sure to get a greenie. At 10 plants you still have a ~1 in 20 chance of going all yellow-baby from bad luck. Planting 4 plants is not a bad bet though; still ~2/3 chance of a greenie. If you don't have 10 F2 seeds you could always plant one 100% greenie seed in the patch in case the F2s skunk you.

2/3/2015 4:57:22 PM

Germany

I think the seeds posted by monsterdog and Wizzy are F1- crosses and then the chance of getting a greenie is not much over 0 %.
I kept my F2 crosses in big pots until they start to vine and planted the plants with the darkest vines in the main spot. Worked most times but not every time. But F2 plants with green/yellow striped vines or yellow vines never grow a greenie.

2/3/2015 6:50:24 PM

Australia eastcoastcitrus@hotmail.com

so if i use seed out of the squash i grew this year which was self pollinated (918 dill) will they be green ????

2/4/2015 4:24:40 AM

Germany

sure, and a interesting cross. not many squashseeds out with a mother/father average of 1349 !

2/4/2015 6:40:36 AM

Corryton, TN

If you got a truly controlled pollination then yes......BUT.... as Scott posted "although no guarantees that it will end up completely meeting the color requirements, but that's the case for 100% squash too."

2/4/2015 6:46:33 AM

Australia eastcoastcitrus@hotmail.com

i think the pollination was controlled as there was very little bee activity at the time and my area is hailnetted mostly as the season went on out of interest i watched other flowers not hand pollinated and didnt see any set at all and on the squash main runner there was 3 after this one i left without pollinating and none of them set

2/4/2015 8:32:38 PM

Hinckley MN

So, hypothetically, I could cross the 1578 Holub x 2323 Meier and have F1 seed that should throw all pumpkins. then grow the F1 x self or sib to get F2 seeds. if I start 8 of the F2s and plant the 2 greenest vined and cull at first female flower to keep the darkest green fruit I should end up with a squash, unless it grows an orange or yellow spot.

2/5/2015 2:02:10 PM

Germany

yup

2/5/2015 5:04:40 PM

Corryton, TN

I "think" you would safe culling the yellow vines. Don't think choosing the darkest will work 100%. I can NOT recall seeing a yellow vined F1 and they've produced 100% pumpkins for me. I've also not experienced the dreaded orange/brown spot. My issues have been too light of color on a few. Almost white. They started green and a couple were 100% squash genetics

2/5/2015 5:12:32 PM

Corryton, TN

I'd gladly put that 1578 x 2323 in my genetics patch. I've got another 3/4 kin to put it on.

2/5/2015 5:16:29 PM

Willamette Valley, Oregon

@dale - if you're at all worried the 1349 crossed with a pumpkin you could always start a few plants and make sure you get one that throws green females. That would be a self.

2/5/2015 5:31:30 PM

Willamette Valley, Oregon

@Farmer Ben - That is a good plan as far as I can tell. As Dave indicated the F1 and F2 there would be ~3/4 pumpkin, which seems good size-wise as long as the green holds.

I've got a similar plan going: I have F1 seeds with 2009 Wallace and 1578* Holub genes in my 1478.5 Holub 2014 (282 Scherber x 615 Cantrell[1578*]) seeds.
The 282 Scherber is a selfed clone cross of the plant that grew the 2009 Wallace so it's (1725 Harp[2009 Wallace] x self].
I'll be doing the breeding on that seed this year to create F2s for 2016 greenie selection, if all goes well.

Here's a page from my diary with all my seeds from this year explained:
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=231785

2/5/2015 5:48:46 PM

Australia eastcoastcitrus@hotmail.com

i will be starting one at each end of the bed so i hope to see some flowers before they get to far past each other but i am fairly confident there were no bees in there i read the post about the seeds on your diary scott very interesting i purchased the 5 squash seed deal with your 1578 cant wait to have 2 squash plants in the patch next year

2/6/2015 4:33:37 AM

California

@bathabitat - as you know the current breeding strategy for most AG's is to look for very high average weight crosses - "best x best." With this strategy in mind, wouldn't the 1578 seed be the best bet from your patch considering its a self pollination of a plant that outperformed all the others, pumpkin or squash, in your patch? Further, its already expressing the green gene. Could you elaborate on the goal of growing out the 1478 and selecting from that as opposed to just selecting from the 1578 itself?

Thanks Scott, I really enjoy reading your posts

2/8/2015 12:03:33 AM

Willamette Valley, Oregon

Yes, I think the 1578* seed is a great bet for next year. 3000+lbs combined in the fruit and pollinator and the green gene is fixed. It's got potential to throw some giant green monsters for sure. It's 1/2 AG and 1/2 Squash.

No time to rest on those laurels though. The plan with the 1478.5 is to push up to 3/4 AG and 1/4 squash with the idea that AGs are bigger so bringing in more AG genes, especially the 2009 Wallace, ups the chances for a really really big squash in 2016.

2/8/2015 2:56:07 PM