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Nova Scotia

Congratulations Scott Holub on a good looking squash. Actually all giant pumpkins are squash. But are the rules for squash really helping keep the true green genetics true? For what are the chances of this 1\4 squash 3\4 pumpkin throwing true green squash? Slim. But we ok it because growing 10 plants we get 1 green squash looking pumpkin. But if a true squash genetic line has a spot of white its classified as a pumpkin. So if the rule for squash is to keep the genetics true we should judge the line it comes from, not on flawless coloring, which seldom happens in nature.(just look a butternut squash at the store with there touches of yellow) For if you only have 1 spot to grow a squash we are Lessing our chances of a true greenie by throwing in a pumpkin squash hybrid. So are we following the letter of the rule? or the intent the law had originally to keep squash, squash? Don't hate just my opinion

10/4/2016 1:03:51 PM

Cornelius, Oregon

I think we would have to go pre-Atlantic Giant to get a true squash line, or at the very least resurrect something from the Gancarz line (which may have been kept out of the AG line, but I have my doubts) or start completely over with the mammoth hubbards and hungarian mammoth, but the minute you mix in that mammoth chile squash to get the faster growth rate, you end up with the AG all over again as that is what brought in the color as well. I still have some of Ford's old seeds from the 80's, but from what I have read, those too were not completely green. Waterman's 'Show King' squash were very similar to my 895, being a pumpkin in green skin.
Scott is doing what I did with the 895 back in the day, only with today's genetics. To me, his 1844 was as squash as squash gets by today's standards and he is only working towards making squash a force to be reckoned with again. My two cents worth...
Now then, who wants seeds from my Mammoth Hubbard x 2009 Wallace???

10/4/2016 3:21:32 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Take Joe Jutra's 1445.5. Cross 615 Cantrell x 996 Haist. I grew two this year. One is a nice dark green and the other is about 90 percent white/cream color. The white/cream has very little light bluish color to it. So yes Scott's giant could throw squashes that are going to end up being ruled as a pumpkin

10/4/2016 7:50:39 PM

St.thomas

Knowing genetic back ground and tracking it is important, especially when it come to auctions and people buying single seeds. Lets start using that asterix!

Solution...

*-both parents are judged squash.

**-parents/grandparents judged squash.

***-parents/gparents/gggparents judged squash.

My opinion, a 3rd generation squash is well on its way to producing true to type and should be allowed some leanency when there is debate on color (I stress debate). Is it a guarantee you'll grow a green/blue grey fruit? No. Just like growing a 2009 Wallace won't gaureentee you a monster...but your chances are much better if you know what you're working with!

There has been 'light' squash recently that has and will consistently produce squash with great color. Squash with a tripple (***) should have judging 'loosened' a little due to background. Of course the honesty of grower will come into play, but doesn't it always in this hobby?

One man's opinion ;)

10/5/2016 11:05:24 AM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

So as for what I know of the genetic make up, I believe Scott's squash should throw Squash almost every time as he selfed this one and didn't out cross it.
There have been TRUE green squash throw pumpkins and vice versa, so there will always be the hiccup going forward but I believe as Brett stated, The 1844 is as Squash as Squash can be

10/5/2016 11:47:49 AM

50 Acres

I have grown squash since the 90"s. I think the asterix is a good guideline. Mother nature is still in control, color is a risk factor. Jim

10/5/2016 11:57:53 AM

Corryton, TN

Eddy your correct, sort of. As many know I've grow more than my share of these hybrids(please don't hate me for it). There are genes in both types that cause light colored fruit, hence blue, grey, cream, white etc. What I have noticed is many of the extremely light colored squash would be called pumpkins at a weigh-off. I've had a couple but took them to local fairs so as not to stir the pot. I can think of one that went to a GPC event, got classified as a squash and probably should not have been. What I have noticed when sitting beside most pumpkins they looked white but when beside a very light/white pumpkin mine have had a green hue. Only had the opportunity to see this twice. One was from what would have had *** in its pedigree. How dark is green? I guess it depends on the judge. I'm not advocating for a rule change just pointing out that a squash can produce a pumpkin under the current rules.

In the last 2 years I've seen that there is a gene present at least in 2 of these hybrids that can affect the color of squash. One was never release to growers. It takes a perfectly normal looking squash and at about 30-40 days it morfs into a blotchy weird yellow and green pumpkin. Actually quite cool looking unless you have your heart set on only weighing in a squash. No doubt in my mind that it is a single co-dominate gene that overrides part of the green gene. Also quite sure it has to come from both parents. Both of these squash have a common pumpkin relative a couple generations back. Both were from selfed plants and I know of no other siblings from either that exhibited this trait.

Would I grow a 1445.5 or an 1844? Only if I wanted to take a good chance at growing a new PB squash and if I get an 1800 pound pumpkin I'll live with it.
My 2 cents. Dave

10/5/2016 1:24:39 PM

Willamette Valley, Oregon

Green-color vs squash-genetics debate aside. (That debate is heathy. And I'm not opposed to it.) However, based on what I've seen the chances are very good that 1578 seeds and probably 1844.5 seeds will throw green a vast majority of the time. The green gene is a single Mendelian recessive and both 1578 and 1884.5 have that green gene locked in. Green can possibly be modified as Dave says but I don't believe these seeds (1578, 1884.5) have the offending modifying genes.

Given the recessive nature of green it doesn't really make sense to me that a parent should be required to be green. (My opinion). As the green can and does skip a generation (well demonstrated.)

Go greenies!!

10/5/2016 7:32:11 PM

Bethlehem CT

If it looks like a squash then it should be classified as such. Both giant squash and AG's are the same exact species.

10/5/2016 8:40:16 PM

British Columbia, Canada

I definitely admire your work Scott. The number of people growing greenies was on the decline for quite a few years & weights were falling way behind AG's. It's cool to see an increase in the number of giant squash being weighed over the past few years. I agree with the post above, if it looks like a squash, it's a squash.

10/5/2016 10:01:31 PM

Karns City PA

Looks like a Squash to me Scott, can I hope there is a seed count and politely put in a early request lol :) my squad seed was crossed with your 1578 you sent me and I absolutely love it would love to add the 1844 in there !! Congrats on your amazing Squash!! I believe it will stand for a long time unless your smash it again ...

10/5/2016 10:11:36 PM

St.thomas

Agreed, but are they exact same cultivars?

Red Delicious and granny Smith are 'the same exact species' as well but their differences run below the skin. There's also black holstein bulls, you're going to have some colour swings next generation if he cozies up to your black angus cows.

I'm not judging right or wrong to cross lines, I'd just like to get to a place where you buy/trade or select a single squash seed, grow it, pollinate it and have it judged as such. Not worrying half the year if it's 'dark enough'? Has it matured enough? Has it got enough sun...i'm not trying to date her, I just want a squash, lol;)

10/5/2016 10:16:32 PM

Eugene,OR

Scott, I am absolutely impressed with what you are doing with greenies. You are making them big! Big is fun to grow! Maybe more people will want to grow them if they are big. Nobody else has been able (or willing to put in the work) to make this happen. Congrats & thanks.

10/6/2016 12:43:01 AM

Colorado

Getting squash weights back closer to pumpkins is key to get more growers to try green.I love squash but they didnt have the potential for a PB weight wise so i quit growing them.Also they seemed to be iffy/hard to get a fruit set..double whammy.The bar has been raised for the better imho

10/6/2016 1:00:07 AM

Bethlehem CT

Joel I understand what you are saying. I can't even imagine how frustrating it must be to have a prizewinning squash brought to a weigh off only to have it dq'd due to a judges call.

10/6/2016 7:31:59 AM

Sourthern Utah

i try and grow at least 1 squash plant every yr,, most are a bit hard,, here in this area,, had a good 1 growing on the same seed as scott grew,, very dark green,, the 1533 kline was crossed into it,, day 49 it blew wide open,, lol, bad, me but was growing great and fast, as far as greenies go, its a good sound squash, best to all and again congrats Scott

10/7/2016 4:55:25 PM

Long Island,New York

Here's my take on the squash rule :


SQUASH RULE !!!!!!!!!!!!

10/9/2016 5:53:00 PM