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Georgetown, Ontario

The GPC rules clearly state "Squash will be classified as follows – 100% of the following colors or color
combinations green, blue, and gray". But I've noticed over the past few years that more and more White "squash" are showing up at weigh offs and being judged as squash. I've been told that as long as when you scratch the skin it's green underneath and that the stem is green and the genetics are from squash then it will be judged as a squash. This might be the case, but it's not the rules. This goes directly against the very clear rules that the GPC sets out. I was really hoping for a rule change from the GPC to reflect this but this has not happened. I've seen GPC reps more than once allow a clearly white pumpkin be judged as a squash, beating out a clearly green squash. Here's my questions, are we going to continue to go against the clear GPC rules? are the rules going to change? or are judges going to actually enforce the GPC rules as written. I'm helping out at a GPC weighoff that just added squash this year and I hope no white ones show up and cause a problem. I would love to hear others experiences and thoughts.

8/22/2017 4:13:28 PM

Claysburg , PA

Shepherd , I agree with you that it is getting real close on some squash judging .

8/22/2017 7:02:57 PM

Long Island,New York

For 19 years I have tried to get the GPC to enforce the GPC rules. Never gonna happen.

8/22/2017 7:44:07 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

Shepherd, your bang on, TOO many white ones for sure, I've fought for this also, If you have a weigh off and your in charge, stick to your guns and call it as it is in the rules. One Squash at a time.

8/22/2017 7:55:54 PM

Maine

When they say scratch the surface to see the color, is it because of cantalouping? Old squash will get this making that area look cream color but it was my understanding this would not be held against the grower as long as the skin of the squash was green, blue, or gray color underneath. I know my squash is very green but the shoulders are getting a rough cream look from cantalouping.

8/23/2017 11:59:58 AM

Cornelius, Oregon

Throw into the mix the very old smooth skin squash that begin to turn brown... Was judged a pumpkin due to the fact it no longer qualified as a squash. This topic has been a pain point for as long as there has been two categories, so I think of it like this... if its a squash, its a squash. If its questionable, its a pumpkin. You gotta be special to be a squash.

8/23/2017 1:16:11 PM

Georgetown, Ontario

Joe1327, no I'm talking about a nice smooth, creamy white pumpkin that is clearly a pumpkin except to the squash growers involved in the judging.

8/25/2017 9:47:52 AM

aurora, IL

Porky(890.5 Porkchop x 513.5 Weibel) has a whitish color for its skin and stem is not green. Both of the parents were squashes. I have been uncovering her to the sun when I am at the patch to help develop her skin color then covering her backup when I leave. Measured her today and has a 101.5"cc my first successful squash, hope she will keep growing. :)

8/25/2017 4:57:35 PM

Ontario, Canada

It's a tough call for sure to judge squash. I can't recall ever seeing a pumpkin, with smooth white skin be called a squash before. I wonder which weigh off that was?

Anyway, I would like to put to bed an issue on this from last season. Last year there was a question at a competing weigh off in Ontario that had a squash with so much cantalouping on it that you could barely see any coloring at all. There were at least 4 previous squash record holders & a GPC rep that studied over it for what seemed like forever, but in the end made a "very tough", but fair call on it. I seen it personally (not a judge though) & still think they made the right call, as it was a very & I mean very light blueish grey, but you had to really look hard between the cantalouping to even see it. Some were mad & made a big stink about it after the weigh off, because the 2nd place squash was such a beautiful green squash. How could it lose? Now does the cantalouped squash not count because the other one is so much nicer looking than it was? No, it was still a squash regardless if it wasn't a beautiful green like the other one was. Unless you were there & studied over the questioned fruit, then your opinion means nothing. Pictures don't always come out clearly in the sun & can distort the color depending on the sun's location when/where the picture is taken. In contrast, I've seen countless orange & green pumpkins call a squash & some become world records. Maybe it's time we just called them all pumpkins or squash & only have 1 award. It sure would save a lot of bickering & save the weigh offs from giving out the extra prize money. Some people who I respect greatly made some very nasty remarks about our members over this, considering they weren't there to witness it. To me that isn't acceptable at any time.

Good luck to all the judges in this year's weigh offs. You better have thick skin if you have to make that tough call. Just make sur

8/28/2017 9:38:00 AM

Ontario, Canada

Sorry ran out of space. LOL.

To finish up my previous posting. "Just make sure it's the right call."

Phil & Jane
GVGO

8/28/2017 9:41:01 AM

Quebec

Pumpkin Shepherd, are your comments above referring mainly to the weigh off at Woodbridge?

8/29/2017 7:41:53 AM

Netherlands

Looking at the diaries this year, I'm afraid there are going to be some very tough calls, especially with some of the Holub specimen. I have also seen some Haist ones that are pretty white as well. That's always a risk when using lines that have pumpkins grown into them.

8/29/2017 8:29:55 AM

Georgetown, Ontario

No Todd, My comments are in general. I think over the years the squash has been getting closer and closer to the line of pumpkin rather than greener and greener, which is what I think the spirit of the GPC rule is about. I think the hope was with a strict rule on colour the squash genetics would get better and better as time went on but that's not the case. Instead of developing 2 distinct lines of colour we are getting to a point that there is very little difference in colour, making judging more difficult and causing problems. My personal feeling is that if we are going to moving more towards cream and light grey and farther away from true green then we should just drop the squash category all together. Because the way it is now is only going to cause more problems in the future. Yes, at Woodbridge is where you explained to me that the skin was green underneath and the stem was green as well proving that it was a squash. I'm not saying that one wasn't a squash but what I'm saying is that squash like that are only going to push the genetics farther and farther away from true green and I think that goes against the spirit of the GPC colour rule. I don't grow squash so maybe I shouldn't have an opinion at all, but from where I sit it doesn't look good and I only see more problems moving forward.

8/29/2017 12:30:10 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Than again, if we want squashes to be 100 percent true green, than the average American sees pumpkins as a orange pumpkin. So therefore, Pumpkins should be 100 percent orange as in if squashes have to be 100 percent green.So that would mean any white pumpkin,cream color pumpkin, orange and green mixed pumpkin, orange and white pumpkin and so forth would be judge not a true orange pumpkin. So we would need to make another judging for mixed pumpkin. Just like most American call brown color people blacks. But if you remember learning your colors in Kindergarten, Black is Black.....Brown is Brown. Over 75 percent of people called Blacks are really BROWN people...

8/29/2017 12:55:48 PM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

I won't soon forget my 1082 squash from 2010 and the best in the GPC that year. My 1177 * Haist plant had late season mildew issues and was weather beaten but the squash had a mind of its own. It was a rock ! My plan was to harvest it the afternoon before the NY State weigh off but we soon learned that we didn't have enough hands to lift it with a tarp. By the time we tracked down the neighbor and his tractor it was dark. The squash tipped and we ended up loading it sideways with the bottom pointing to the side and that was how we unloaded it at Cooperstown. It looked unusual with the creamy yellow bottom showing. It was a beautiful green squash with some gray striping in the ribs. There was plenty of experienced growers and judges there with Bill Bobier, Andy Wolf, Joe Pukos, Karl Haist and others in attendance. There wasn't even a question that it was not a squash there. As the weeks passed I was surprised to see that it held up as the best in the GPC that year. Then the mention of the Green Jacket came up and the pebbles started to get tossed. People who were not there started questioning some photos out there and wondered if it was a True Green fruit. In that year a grower from the Netherlands weighed one in that was 20 lbs better in a non GPC event and eventually was awarded the Green Jacket. I don't think the color on that one was critiqued as much as mine. I have plenty of pics in my 2010 diary. I may be the only GPC squash winner who did not win the Green Jacket and I don't believe that there is a plaque or anything to recognize the GPC past winners (hint, hint) as I believe they leave that up to the Green Jacket Committee. Its all good and I only grew the fruit and didn't paint it but believe it was without a doubt true green. I think a squash is pretty easy to see and can spot a long way away. If there is any orange or color against the GPC rules they should not be considered and for the most part the grower should not have entered it as a squash.

8/29/2017 4:37:59 PM

Netherlands

Ned, as you know, the green jacket is for the largest squash, regardless if GPC or not. I received the green jacket in 2007 and that was not at an GPC event, so there are two of you GPC winners without a jacket...lol

Arnold Horde's winning squash in 2010 was green/grey and nobody questioned it because I was the judge and we didn't post pictures :)

8/30/2017 4:53:52 AM

Quebec

Judging squash is a thankless tough job and one that is taken seriously by the judges I have seen at the many weigh offs I've attended. Last year I was at 5 GPC contests in Ontario and I did not see any squash entered that could be called pumpkins with smooth white skin. These comments are hurtful and uncalled for in my opinion. The judge in Woodbridge did an excellent job in dealing with a light coloured squash. He examined it closely and then seeing that there were several green jacket holders in attendance that did not have squash entered, asked for them to consult together over this squash. I was one of them and we were told and shown the GPC rules regarding colour and that was very much on our minds while checking it out. Stem colour, scratching under the canteloping skin are helpful guidelines but are not the only things in determining if it is a squash. Good judges are valuable and if all this bickering continues it will be next to impossible to obtain them. My fear down the road is squash being assimilated into the pumpkin world and that would suck. Not all pumpkins are orange and not all squash are green. Blue grey squash have been around forever and some of them can get very light in colour but they are squash and deserve to judged as such. If it is true green that everyone is after then perhaps down the road we could have a similar separate contest for green beauties, parallel to the Howard Dill Award for orange pumpkins. So please lets give the judges some credit here and support them on these hard and difficult decisions.

8/30/2017 7:30:04 AM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

I too would think it would be a shame if the category were eliminated. It is a select group of growers who are willing to give up prime pumpkin patch space to try their luck with a squash. For the most part they are hard to pollinate, seem to abort quicker and aren't very desirable to sell once the weigh off is over. On the plus side there aren't many grown and you can usually find a weigh off where you may be able to place in the top 3 and get acknowledged for your efforts. With the pumpkins getting bigger and bigger usually for the average grower a top 3 or even top 10 is sometimes out of reach. The Green community should survive!! I just feel sometimes that nobody knows the squash better than the grower themselves and you know if there is a chance that it won't qualify or that it has some orange bleeding through and should not be entered. Those the grower should leave at home.... and not force the judges or committee to have to make the difficult decision and create some hard feelings along the way. Good luck everyone... its crunch time now.. here is hoping they all hold together.

8/30/2017 10:41:02 AM

Georgetown, Ontario

I think some people are missing the point of my original post. I'm not saying these marginal squash are not squash. Todd, you explained to me at Woodbridge why that one was a squash. What I'm saying is that it doesn't look good when 10 people see white or cream and the judges see very light grey. It's an extremely fine line. What I'm trying to get at is that over time this is going to get worse and worse as these genitics are introduced into the squash lines. So I think the GPC either needs to change the rules to accommodate these borderline squash by stating what other measures can used to determine if it's a squash (genetics, stem colour, underneath first layer of skin colour, etc), or the rules need to be stricter to hopefully eliminate these types of squash from the genetic lines. If nothing is done, I see this issue causing more and more problems in the future. It's an excellent idea to have a similar award to the Howard Dill for squash. The Howard Dill award has gone a long way to producing genetic lines that are very orange, maybe the same thing could happen for squash. I'm sorry if some of my comments came across as hurtful, that was not my intent. My intent was a discussion about judging squash, GPC rules, and if others see similar problems moving forward that I see.

8/30/2017 12:24:34 PM

Ontario, Canada

Good idea Todd. I like the idea of having a Howard Dill type award for squash. Now your on the GPC executive, maybe you could bring that up with the executive. This has been a thorn in many people's @$$ & a real headache for the GPC. I'd like to see the GPC add this to the ribbon & plaque awards package they send out to the GPC weigh offs each year. Maybe it would help stop all the bickering about the squash.

How about the Leonard Stellpflug Award for the prettiest Squash?

9/3/2017 8:53:31 AM

Wooley Swamp N.Y.

I like the sound of that Phil

9/3/2017 9:37:01 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I'll second that Phil. Sounds like an awesome idea.

9/3/2017 9:53:47 AM

Team Canuckle Heads

sounds like a great idea

9/3/2017 8:22:52 PM

aurora, IL

Cool idea!

9/3/2017 8:52:07 PM

aurora, IL

Speaking of judging squash, I checked on Porky this morning and she has been developing brownish/orangeish spots around the blossom end some are more orange than brown. Would this cause Porky to judged as a pumpkin? There is orange nowhere else on her just around the blossom. Both of her parents were squashes.

9/4/2017 10:54:24 AM

Eugene,OR

Christopher- Keep a sheet on it & it will not change colors as much. Take it to a contest with both a pumpkin & a squash category. Ask the judges on site before the contest if it is a pumpkin or a squash and enter it where it will not cause a problem.

9/24/2017 2:37:34 PM

Pittsburgh, PA

I believe that any orange will classify it as a pumpkin.

9/24/2017 3:19:17 PM

Claysburg , PA

Jay , I believe you are correct .

9/24/2017 5:09:08 PM

aurora, IL

The orange coloring has been turning green with blueish green color around the front of Porky.

9/25/2017 6:57:13 AM

Karns City PA

Agreed Phil that's a great idea!!

9/25/2017 1:59:54 PM