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Lodi, California

Experienced squash growers, I'd like to know your thoughts on the following:

So I know this is a somewhat contested topic, but I wanted to ask what you squash growers think in 2022 about piggy backing on AG genetics, and breeding out the dominant orange genes.

It's definitely possible. The 1109 Jutras? It's almost 50 percent 1725 harp, because it's 7/8th 1844 Holub, which is 50 percent 1725 harp, and has also produced stunning green fruit.

Of course it's understandable why people dislike the idea of crossing squash and ag, most people are growing competitively, and they don't want their only squash plant to throw an orange fruit. But if you invest a couple years in a breeding project, where you cross fruit with desirable traits, and selectively eliminate the traits you don't want over generations, you can arrive at the desired result.

What I've noticed is that squash growers tend to self their squash, either because they only grow one plant, or because they wish to preserve the green gene. This, coupled with the fact that far fewer squash are grown, has stifled the selective breeding of large squash compared to AGs. The largest gains in squash size have been the result of piggy backing on AG genes.

I'm growing 1 or 2 squash this year, and no I'm not crossing them with AGs, I want to preserve the good green genetics. However I am growing several genetic AG plants that I intend to cross with my squash and do further experiments with to lock in the green gene.

3/2/2022 2:26:42 AM

Eugene,OR

I like the idea of crossing the 1109 Jutras with big & heavy AG’s. You are going to end up with something that is really big & really heavy. I think the 1109 would be a fantastic pollinator. I plan to have some seeds that fit that description at the end of the summer!

3/2/2022 12:40:45 PM

Eugene,OR

Let’s see if Scott Holub can add his opinion to this conversation!

3/2/2022 12:41:53 PM

On a cliff in the desert

I've been waiting to see if someone has grown a 1326.5 Young/Rhodes seed. This is a selfed 2145 that turned into a squash.

If these seeds produce squash, then I would grow mine and then pollinated it with an 1109 and see if it produces a monster squash. Otherwise I would be inclined to pollinate a larger selfed 2145 seed with an 1109. Then hope I can find a squash seed in all the seeds.

3/2/2022 1:45:12 PM

Lodi, California

Hey Wile, one step ahead of you. Don sent me some seeds.

However, I don't believe the 1326 is a squash, at least not fully. It's very similar to other 2145 offspring. If you look at 2145 offspring, almost all of them "greened up" toward the end, usually from the bottom. Some are about 25 percent green, others closer to 50 or 75, and in the case of the 1326 Young/Rhodes, it started yellow and eventually the whole thing greened up. It's more of a grey/white/green tinged sort of color, but the weigh off, and the other squash growers, agreed it was a squash because when they scraped the skin, it was solid green underneath. In my opinion, this is probably something like a partial expression of green genes.

This is very interesting. What's more interesting is that the young/rhodes squash isn't the only one, or even the biggest. From the pictures I've seen of the 2166 Cutrupi, another 2145 offspring, it too appears exactly the same as the 1326, at least from the front. So technically, that could have been the new world record squash

Thanks for bringing this up Wile

3/2/2022 4:34:00 PM

Willamette Valley, Oregon

An old 2013 link with much info you probably want to know:
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=24&p=491454
(later posts on that thread get off track but the first ones are good.)

I'm wary of crossing a greenie with shiny bright orange. I have run into brown squash offspring doing that. Also avoid white/cream AG. My favorite AG parent would be a nice solid dull salmon pink. (615 Cantrell and 1060 Holub were both that color.)

Look back at my old diary entries too.

3/12/2022 12:42:43 PM

Nyc Usa

Interesting perspective on the topic of piggy backing on AG genetics in squash breeding. It's understandable why some may be hesitant, but the potential benefits in terms of size and trait selection can be substantial. Your plan to preserve the good green genetics while experimenting with AG crosses is commendable. Good luck with your growing and breeding projects, and looking forward to seeing the results

1/31/2023 9:17:45 AM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Ben Hebb and Wil Neily did this very thing a long time ago. The 836 Neily was the result of crossing a 848 MacKenzie * x 1370 Rose. Ben Hebb crosses his then WR 990 * with a 1068 Wallace I believe. I don’t think either cross saw much dirt.

1/31/2023 11:55:59 AM