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Colorado

the previous few posts suggest getting the biggest pump possible for the most air, such as this one:

http://www.rockymountainpond.com/store/air-pumps/eco-plus-commercial-grade-air-5-pump-80-watts/prod_90.html

my question is the following- is a 80W pump too powerful for a 5 gallon bucket set-up? It seems like some of the previous posts were for larger set-ups.

thanks

3/8/2008 4:53:25 PM

Yep it is, I tried mine in a 5 gallon pail here and made a huge mess on my floor!

If you only intend on that size container, 80W is a waste since you really need to throttle it down, trust me I just did it, lol

3/8/2008 6:00:01 PM

Colorado

lol, thanks dan!

anyone know what size is appropriate for a 5 gallon bucket?

18W, 35W, 60W ???

3/8/2008 6:13:17 PM

Pete I ran small (cheap) double outlet pumps in the 18W size(actual air output is more important here) from a box store the first year I made tea. Used a 5 gallon pail and when I tee'd the lines to 4 outlets did a 25 gallon barrel with it. This can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it, when you get the feel for a good tea i.e. know the smell and the color, you have it figured out for the most part. Maybe not perfection but low cost and easy, plus your results in the garden/patch will show it. Keep notes on recipes, temps, and brew times it really helps.

Just my .02

3/8/2008 6:49:17 PM

Seattle, WA

I really think you need to use either direct microscopy or lab tests to know whether or not you have a good tea. Color, foam, and smell are not good indicators in any way as to the biological content of your tea. If you think you have the process down, go ahead and get it tested at least once to make sure that you are doing things correctly. I think this is especially important if you're trying to maximize growth on your pumpkins.

3/12/2008 1:46:39 PM

Seattle, WA

Find out how many hours the pump is rated for. I always look at liters per minute or cfm in determining whether a motor may or may not work. I'll have to go back and look up specs., but I know I posted them on a similar thread (other people did too) just a month ago or so if you check the archives.

3/12/2008 1:48:24 PM

Seattle, WA

The other consideration is how you're dispersing the air within the bucket. You need to make sure that your air bubbles are maximizing the dissolved oxygen in your water without getting too small as to shred the fungi.

3/12/2008 1:49:18 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

From what I can see the recomendation is 1L/min air per 1L water. in other words a 5 gal pail is about 20L. An 18W pump should put out about 18L air/min so it should work fine.

This all being said, I have no experiance making tea....lol

3/12/2008 2:13:00 PM

President - GPC

Yo Pete, email TheWiz on this please.....

3/12/2008 3:04:27 PM

Cheshire,Ma

The most important thing will be having enough dissolved oxygen while brewing. The things that will influence this will be water temp the amount of "food" in the tea and the amount of microorganisms in the tea. The D.O. will change as the poulation grows rapidly. A D.O. meter is used to measure this.

3/12/2008 4:02:32 PM

President - GPC

This is why I like using the system from KIS, their system is tested and was designed and redesigned to achieve an optimum output. One can make your own brewer and achieve some good results if a lot of thought is put into it, but how do you know... Is is good enough??, dunno???, even the air injection plenum is designed to disperse the air evenly and in a certain amount based on rated, tested pump, there are many varibles to consider. Its not a fish tank pump with a bubbler on it with molasses fish and seaweed added and a handful of your patch dirt....untested results are just guesses....maybe your a good guesser......Please dont get me wrong, new ideas and designs are great, but they need to be tested so one can interpret the results and make changes if necessary to obtain a certain desired consistent product.........If you can get the video from Dr Linderman, watch it.....Check out the Keep It Simple Website too,...I found it to contain great information to learn on......Good Luck Growing in 2008!

3/13/2008 10:35:19 AM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

I've got a question. What possibilities are there in using an air compressor with a regulator to provide air for the tea? (instead of an air pump)
John

3/13/2008 10:40:53 AM

Colorado

OK, so here is the 18W pump that I have been looking at:

http://www.rockymountainpond.com/store/air-pumps/eco-plus-commercial-grade-air-1-pump-18-watts/prod_88.html

it puts out 38L/min at 2.9 PSI.

I agree that there is science involved in the recipes, but from what I have read (as far as the air flow goes), you need sufficient air flow (to keep it aerobic) and big enough bubbles (to not damamge the fungi). Therefore, if I can find a pump with sufficinet air flow, and set it up to give big enough bubbles, I should be in good shape with the airflow. anyone out there disagree with this statement? I'm talking airflow here, not recipes.

Tad12 -

what's testing cost from you guys, and could I ship tea all the way from colorado to you guys and still get meaningful results? thanks.

3/13/2008 2:46:28 PM

Colorado

So I guess what I am wondering here is if you took the KIS recipe and used it in a good homemade bucket/pump set-up, rather than the KIS bucket/pump set-up, would the results differ significantly?

My guess would be that the difference would be minimal. Am I wrong here?

3/13/2008 2:55:19 PM

Cheshire,Ma

I have built my own and use my own recipe. I can also change it if I want to. I have access to a microscope and a D.O meter so it's easier to monitor. I don't want to buy a recipe that I can make much cheaper. Again I have acess to equipment that allows me to monitor it. Without the D.O meter I could not measure the oxygen level in the brew.If you would like to email me I can be reached at dthajdas@roadrunner.com Dan

3/13/2008 4:32:04 PM

Seattle, WA

Wow, lots of good questions on here.

Cornhusk - I do know of some people using an aircompressor, I think that would work provided the aeration levels are sufficient. Issue with the compressor seems to be their rating in hours and also the noise assoc. with them. I haven't seen any data either way as to their effectiveness, but I assume if it's pushing the proper amount of air it would work in theory.

Pete - Our 5-gal. extended life unit is pushing 51 liters per min. @ 1.5 psi. It's a 24-36 hour brew cycle. It's not pushing as much air as our original unit, but has a higher rating in terms of hours, that's why it takes 24 hours instead of our original 12. Personally, I wouldn't go any lower than this in regards to air flow. I do agree that if you get sufficient air flow and the proper size bubbles you should be fine. There's nothing magical about what we're doing, just that we've tested the brewer itself and are using high-quality inputs (compost and foods) to guarantee consistent results.

Currently, I'm offerring free qualitative assessments of your tea if you have our brewer. Samples are conducted based on SFI's sampling instructions and would need to be sent overnight. I know this is how they sample and it's the best possible way considering the constraints due to distance. I'm sure a tea looks better right out of the brewer than 12-24 hours later, but you can still get an idea based on the sample as to the existence of fungi and their hyphal diameter, and what types and diversity of protozoa are present (bacteria is usually not an issue). I'd be willing to look at a sample for you if you contact me, as it only takes a couple of min. to look at a prep a slide. I'm hoping to get setup where I can then post the results on youtube and you can look at the tea yourself to compare.

3/13/2008 5:06:09 PM

Seattle, WA

I can't tell you what you'd get if you put of kit into your homemade brewer. I know that our compost contains high biology and the food source is measured based on the aeration in our brewer. Some people have tried it, but they've never come back to me with any data. I typically don't recommend it because I can't ensure great results. If you sent me a sample though I could tell you more.

Dan - If you have a DO meter and microscope, then you're all set. I agree with these tools anyone can make a good brewer and good recipe. However, most people don't have hundreds or even thousands of dollars to throw into this equipment (not to mention the cost of the brewer). Might be a good investment for a club though if everyone chipped in. There's a DVD out right now by Tim Wilson that you may be interested in. It's an identification DVD using the microscope that show examples of the various organisms found in compost teas. I found it very helpful and still use it as a reference. His website is www.microbeorganics.com

Cheers,
Tad

3/13/2008 5:06:19 PM

Ontario

I bought their 5 gallon system and compost and foods. Like wiz says its been tested, I ran it with water and what I thought was a good bubbler with a fish pump, boy was I wrong. There is no dead spotsand it made the water rise by 3 inches. Tad offers great support. I very excited about the results. drew

3/13/2008 6:03:27 PM

Cheshire,Ma

Tad great link. I work at a wastewater treatment plant so I get to look at similar microrganisms all week. I plan on getting the DVD and examing my tea and a couple grower's tea that I know are brewing. It's very interesting to see what's actually gooing on in the brew.
Dan

3/13/2008 6:16:40 PM

President - GPC

Nice,,,, I have used rain water and tropical fish tank water @ Ph 6.9, and some by cleaning out the gravel....I found the rain water seems to give me a faster breakdown I should do some water tests on the rain water...off my roof...lol .... I'm trying to find the report that talks about the amount of biology in teas made from diff types of water....from city water to pond water....Pond was the way to go.....But I figure to still alternate water sources in my teas to provide a different fauna.....rain, fish tank, pond, filtered.....I think I read it on the KIS site or linkage....good stuff, water makes a big difference, I think distilled was the worst........copper....

Im also using my own fresh worm castings added to the compost sak.....to give a higher potential of the good guys.....
Great thread guys.......

Tad I would like to provide you a sample of my tea for analysis here when I crank it up. .... Please Advise how to go about doing that.....Thanks for your help.

3/14/2008 9:02:22 AM

President - GPC

Yo SLudgepumpkin.........I envy you, email me please....

3/14/2008 9:03:32 AM

Seattle, WA

There is a water quality report on our website that was written by my father. I look at it more as a way of noting that not all water sources are equal when it comes to making compost tea, however they did not replicate their study or use enough controls in my opinion to convincingly say that one is always better then another.

As for a sample, take a small disposeable water bottle (like the kind you buy by the case at the grocery store), fill it up only a fifth or quarter full of tea, and then shake it for 1 min. Put it in a package and send it overnight to:

Keep It Simple, Inc.
12323 180th AVE NE
Redmond, WA 98052

Be sure to let me know it's coming, and don't send it on a Friday, as I'm not always here on the weekends. Don't forget to include contact info. so I can call you and any other info. that you think may be helpful.

~Tad

3/14/2008 1:56:51 PM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

Tad...thanks for your input/s, it's always beneficial.
John

3/15/2008 12:45:47 AM

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

I make an alfalfa tea,
First I go to the Mountains(ROCKY) and get a couple 5 gallon buckets of mountain water.
Second, I cut my alfalfa patch (mowin it) then i put all the alfalfa into the buckets and let it set.

Ok so this yr I will be redoing this procedure. But in the past it has worked.

3/21/2008 8:26:47 PM

Greenwood Village, Co

Tad12 - how does altitude play into the DO2....say i live @ 5480ft - would adjustments need to be made to your 5 gallon brewer? like the motor/pump size? or the food? prob temperature would play into the results as well?

5/1/2008 12:28:33 PM

Greenwood Village, Co

sorry i reposted question as a new message...d

5/1/2008 3:45:44 PM