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Any thoughts on the Mendi 2517 being self pollinated?

2/18/2022 7:07:32 AM

Kutztown, PA

I'm growing one this year, so I guess I'll see what happens. Other than anecdotal speak, I'm not sure if there's any real proof that self pollination is a bad thing. I suppose one could make a case that there's a smaller set of genetic possibility, but that could also be a good thing, IMO.

2/18/2022 9:20:43 AM

Westmoreland, KS

I too might be growing one. I personally have never selfed any seed before but this would be a good one to self in my opinion.

2/18/2022 10:39:23 AM

Kutztown, PA

I wasn't planning to self a 2517 since I have a few other good seeds to cross with, but I would have a problem with it. One I was thinking of crossing with the Mendi is the 1760.5 Uhlmeyer which is a 2416 Haist x 2469 Daletas. I also have a 2356 Wolf that might be a good cross.

2/18/2022 10:55:11 AM

Kutztown, PA

I mean I would not have a problem selfing the Mendi if I didn't have other plans. I'm new at this so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

2/18/2022 10:56:52 AM

It seems that the Mendi seeds when self polinated come close to what the predecessor was in weight. Lke the Mendi 2183 produced the 2096 Barron & the 2169 Daho!

2/18/2022 11:39:55 AM

Brooktondale, New York

I believe technically it was not selfed, as the pollen did not come from the 2183 plant. I believe the intended goal was to solidify the awesome producing genetics. Mendi has a video about his 2021 grow and he seems very impressed with the growth pattern he saw out of this plant. The link is some where on this site(selecting the seed or something under the seed starting message board). His selection technique are geared toward selecting strong growers. Second thing is that this pumpkin is 6(/7) in the world, that is incredible. From what I can tell most crosses are made because those are the seeds the grower has, the top tier growers are paying close attention. Wallace is another good example. Look at his grows and you will see specific and intentional crosses/ back crosses. I have seen Mendi post a few times maybe he could in his own words he could tell us what he was doing with the 2517 back cross your questions stem from? That would be the best person to speak to this. It seems two things are for sure in the pumpkin world, nothing is for sure and only time will tell. Plant it and hold on for the ride. If other growers believe I am wrong speak up, it takes more than seeds to grow 2517 don't lose sight of that. The upper deck growers have been fine tuning soil, feeding/spray programs and gardening techniques for years.

2/18/2022 11:45:26 AM

Brooktondale, New York

I am sorry if I miss read your question. You mean you want to 2517xself for 2022. I would still be interested in Mendi opinion. I was so proud of my long winded reply only to realize I need to back to school for reading or get hooked phonics :)

2/18/2022 12:04:05 PM

Your right the 2517 was not self polinated it was the 2183 Mendi x 2552 Mendi. I agree with you on "it takes more than seeds to grow" But a good genetic seed should give you the best possible chance at a sizable pumpkin with depending how that individuals growing routine is. One person may hit 800 lbs while another hits 1800 lbs all depending on know how & time spent.

2/18/2022 12:12:42 PM

Kutztown, PA

What's really hard for me to establish is how much increase in weight over the years is due to "honing" growing skills and how much is due to seed selection. Reading back in some of the old diaries it really doesn't seem like methods/skill have changed that much. My guess is pumpkin weight has increased primarily due to genetic selection, and the selection process is a very subjective thing based on what a grower perceives as being a good prospect.

2/18/2022 1:50:06 PM

valtierra/spain

I would try 2517.7 x sibb. I like sibb crosses better than self, 2 seeds from the same pumpkin have more different genetic traits than if you cross the same seed. The 1875 was sibb, I'm sure the Paton brothers if it had been x self they wouldn't have grown it. They don't like self x crosses. But many other growers, if they like x themselves, because if you hit with one of those seeds (10% of the total, I think), which has enhanced the good genetic traits, it can be a real bomb, many world records will be they have done with self, in squash and in atlantic giant... but then other seeds of the same pumpkin have not worked.
Pumpkin 2517.7 has been an incredible pumpkin. Pollinate that pumpkin with 2552 from a pot. I had several pollinators, (In winter I investigate the genetics, and I look at seeds that have produced heavy fruits, with good shape) I also put in the pollinators, 3 x 2552, I trust the pollinator the same as the mother, to get the same genetics. Not all seeds from the same pumpkin are the same, so it is very important to make sure that the pollinator is going to be from a fast, strong plant with heavy pumpkins. Of all my pollinators in 2021, the ones that gave me pumpkins with more wall (I cut all the small female flowers in half to look at the inner wall) were 1686 stels and one of 2552, they also had incredible flowers (I don't use any pesticide on pollinators, just marijuana bloom fertilizer, algae, and little else). I got many flowers from that pot to pollinate, in my diary there is a photograph. http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=324242

2/18/2022 3:46:08 PM

valtierra/spain

In 2019 my best pollinator was 2469, but in 2021, 2469 did not have such a thick wall, that's why I decided to pollinate with 1686 and 2552. I like crosses x self, to purify the genetics, but I'm sure that 1 out of 10 seeds will be an amazing seed, possibly better than the mother, but the other 9 may have genetic defects. However, crossing the same genetics but from another offspring, can give fewer genetic failures and further enhance the genetics. Meier did it with the 2009, and many other great growers. The 2517, has been a pumpkin that grew less than 90 days, with growths never seen, one day up to 74 pounds, but many days more than 60 pounds. It stopped in a heat wave, then recovered... but finally the powdery mildew killed the plant. This year I decided not to put powdery mildew fungicides, I only put some contact fungicide when it was too late, so I think I missed a great opportunity to have gained 200 more pounds, the last 30-40 days of fattening.
The 2552 that I put up for the 150 square foot contest, was the fastest plant in the patch, I filled 150 square feet in a few days, it was incredible... there is a photo here. http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=324753
But the heat, over 100 F, didn't let the squash pollinate well, and I ran out of flowers, and had to remove the plant.
However, the other 2552 that I put to grow in 800 feet, was a slow plant, and I had to grow a pumpkin in a secondary one, because the main guide broke and I only got 1509 pounds. The 2552 from the pot with which the 2517 was pollinated, I think it was just as fast as the 150-foot one... Luck when choosing the plant is very important, and in xself crosses you can get a real GOLD seed , which can get a wr, or you can get a seed whose genes have not worked together. We will see who is lucky enough to find the golden seed, in 2517, in 2702, and in many of the 2183 x self in the world.

2/18/2022 3:46:13 PM

Rmen what do you think about using the 2169 Daho (2183 Mendi X self) or the 2304 Geddes (1542 Urena x self) to pollinate the Mendi 2517.

2/18/2022 4:49:12 PM

valtierra/spain

If the pollinator is a beutifull plant, with pumpkins with a good wall, any pollinator can be good, one of the same genetics or one of different genetics. Perhaps the one with the most distinct features is 2302, if you get a good seed from 2302, who knows. There is a theory about genetic vigor, which says that crosses between totally different genetics can achieve genetic vigor in the next generation. Genetic vigor is very important.

2/19/2022 11:59:24 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

Rmen do you believe heavy pumpkins (wall thickness) is more contributed to genetics or soil conditions . As far as genetic vigor goes i agree about the crosses between totally different genetics creating hybrid vigor. Its why i crossed the 1844 Holub x 2145 McMullen .Time will tell i guess

2/20/2022 2:30:41 PM

Syracuse, NY

I lernt or at least was exposed to more ideas and brain expansion than I can recall having had in years from Rmen's discussion and this post in general! eg

2/21/2022 4:48:04 PM