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Kutztown, PA

At what point can you confirm that pollination has been successful? I would say if the pumpkin has bent to the ground. I'm doing a pollination experiment which you can read about in my diary and I just want the pumpkin on the plant long enough to confirm that pollination was or was not successful.
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryView.asp?season=2024&grower=101557&action=L

7/15/2024 11:40:04 AM

Germany

In most cases I do about 2 or 3 pollinations along the main vine, and as soon as the first fruit kicks into gear (which tells me that there must have been something successful), the others slow down and eventually abort. Also, in my case it happens quite often that the few secondaries near the fruit (further along the main vine and also the next four or so secondaries toward the crown) seem to quit growing as soon as the fruit is taking off (taking off slowly around DAP 10 - 15, not the vampire type of fruit sucking all the power out of the plant, but the plant seems to already know that this is the fruit where the juice needs to flow into). These are the signs when I´m pretty sure pollination was successful. If you are after good seeds, then the answer to your question is: After weigh-off, when you opened the pumpkin, got the seeds and they passed the viability test. ;)

7/15/2024 11:50:06 AM

Grittyville, WA

I keep suggesting that feeling if the stigma is firm is the best and quickest way to tell. Apparently no one likes that method, its a bit too hands on. We like things to be visual, so let me put it this way: If you push the stigma and you can see it flex, aka its rubbery... then you've got nothing. If its firm then its pollinated.

7/15/2024 12:42:40 PM

Kutztown, PA

Gritty,

How many DAP would you use that method?

7/15/2024 1:23:21 PM

Grittyville, WA

Works any DAP I think. But personally I find it most useful around 3 dap. Thats when I get curious, and when I may want to make an early decision to keep or cull.

7/15/2024 2:29:52 PM

Grittyville, WA

Might not work prior to 3 DAP. Unpollinated ones might be stiffer in the early am than in the late afternoon. Successfully pollinated stigmas should be fairly firn any time of day though.

7/15/2024 2:36:54 PM

Kutztown, PA

It will be interesting to see if it takes after 3 days in the fridge. I may try a five day next. I think picking the males the day before you think they'll open may give you an extra day. All conjecture until I test it out. Also, I used all five of the males I collected to do the pollination.

7/15/2024 2:42:05 PM

Grittyville, WA

Technically, its the "style" that gets noticeably soft and rubbery. The style is the connection between the stigma and the ovary. Anatomy class for botanists, sorry :( Whoever came up with all these never-used part names was sure obsessed with flowers.

[Last edit: 07/15/24 2:47:26 PM]

7/15/2024 2:46:18 PM

Kutztown, PA

I'm wondering if my experiment is flawed in that I used 5 male flowers to pollinate with. I say that because if you have 5 male flowers that you can pick off 3 or 4 days prior to a wanted pollination then chances are you might have at least one new one to use too. Anyway, I may have one more experimental female left to goof around with and plenty of male flowers. I may go for a five day pollination and see what happens if the three day works.

7/15/2024 4:18:32 PM

Kutztown, PA

I'm going to try a "Gritty Style" exam when I get home today.

7/15/2024 4:20:24 PM

Kutztown, PA

I'm pretty sure the 3 day pollination was a success. I'll let the pumpkin go until Friday then cull it. By then I'll be able to confirm it with confidence. I piked 5 new males yesterday to try and get a five day in fridge pollination. Of course that's assuming I have a female to pollinate in five days. I may have to go 4 or 6. Will see.

7/16/2024 10:05:33 AM

Kutztown, PA

Ok - the results of my pollination experiment. The pollination of a female with male flowers kept for three overnight stays in the fridge was successful. A photo:
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryView.asp?season=2024&grower=101557&action=L

7/17/2024 1:19:26 PM

Hadley Ny

lmao

7/17/2024 2:21:06 PM

Pumpkin Zone

I think you might have fooled it into thinking it was pollinated. Sorry, but I have to agree with Big T that it looks sketchy. I would predict it gets to around football size then fails.

Part of getting success might be in having pollen that is high in zinc, phosphorus, and whatever else. There might be minerals that would help lengthen the viability.

7/17/2024 2:47:28 PM

Colorado

Three days is too early to show success.The fruit needs to be 14 to 18 days old and demonstrate accelerated growth to be 95% sure its set.

7/17/2024 3:03:49 PM

Kutztown, PA

I have to disagree with your definitions of pollination. You won't get cell division of any kind without pollination and you won't get a football size pumpkin from an unpollinated female. There's never been an unpollinated fruit that showed growth of any kind at 14-18 days, accelerated or other wise. Maybe, I shouldn't have used the word "successful". LOL

[Last edit: 07/17/24 4:19:16 PM]

7/17/2024 4:16:38 PM

Pumpkin Zone

Hormones control everything, its not all black abd white, and it takes time for those initial lustful chemicals the plant had to dissipate and for it come back to its senses. If there was some initial "excitement" followed by no returned phone calls... then 10-18 days is when it will wear off.

But yeah its complicated because I think there's two levels of possible failure, probably two different modes of failure. Some fail by about day 3, others fail at volleyball size.

Most of us have a lot of failures under our belt. For me it seems like a daily thing almost. It makes you appreciate the story about Edison failing 1,000 times before getting the lightbulb right. (Might be as true as the story about George Washington cutting down a cherry tree, but oh well, but it there's truth in either story, even if the facts are off a bit...?)

Anyhow, its great to try new things... Things tend to succeed when you least expect it.

7/17/2024 4:36:49 PM

Colorado

Gar,Im just saying you cant tell if the fruit is set on day three.If you want to be 95% confident that its set you have to observe it a lot longer than than three days.On day three you can only be sure of so far so good.Kind of like calling the election with 5% of the ballots counted.

7/17/2024 5:10:05 PM

Kutztown, PA

I guess my experiment and mindset are really based on: is the male pollen viable after 3 days in the fridge, not really the overall outcome of the pollination. That's really the only question I'm trying to answer. The different question you guys seem to be answering is: Will 3 day old pollen produce a viable pumpkin. Of course you can't answer that because even if you had fresh pollen you get failures.

[Last edit: 07/18/24 9:45:42 AM]

7/18/2024 8:11:53 AM

Grittyville, WA

I think your experiment needs to add a 'control' then compare the results of both methods: normal vs refrigerated. Keep us posted on your experiments!

7/18/2024 9:23:32 AM

Grittyville, WA

If you want to call it a success then go ahead and call it a success. I might have confused you with the whole limp stigma thing. I guess there's a caveat there, but I dont think I can explain it very well.

7/18/2024 9:43:31 AM

Kutztown, PA

I may have to wait until next season and put in a plant just for this pUrpose. I don't want to do any more pollinations on my 150 sf since I have one I want to keep. If I use the viable pumpkin vs the viable pollen to determine successful pollination I'd have to leave the culls on to long.

[Last edit: 07/18/24 9:54:47 AM]

7/18/2024 9:54:09 AM

Hadley Ny

That is a good idea!!

7/18/2024 10:19:24 AM

Arlington, MN

what makes a giant pumpkin plant not take a pollination? i have 4 pants and all took first attempt on pollinating. 1 plant i have pollinstaed 5 times and now have taken. can a plant not be fertile? i trierd with 2 other plants for male flowers and none have grown. i tried again yeserday with males from the same plant hoping this 1 takes. will see in a couple days

7/18/2024 2:32:09 PM

Mission Viejo, CA

Hi Pat,
Yes, there are examples of sterile plants. It does happen.

7/18/2024 3:29:48 PM

Arlington, MN

thanks

[Last edit: 07/18/24 3:30:39 PM]

7/18/2024 3:30:03 PM

Hadley Ny

I had a kin with at least 20 differnt females and could not get a set on one. Sterile plants do happen.

7/18/2024 4:28:24 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

Potto, I had a sterile plant in 2016... sucked. Beautiful plant too.

Think of the movie Deliverance... that's what these pumpkins are. There can be issues.

A lot of times, plants are in rapid growth stage or still heavily rooting that they abort everything. Kind of strange it is just one plant though.

7/18/2024 5:26:44 PM

Grittyville, WA

I have not had a sterile plant yet, but some plants are harder to please than others, they can be fickle. For me, the ones that have the genetics for very high % hvy seem to abort more than the ones that have light-to-chart genetics. Weather, genetics, and soil minerals... not sure if there's anything else, maybe I am forgetting something. Soil temp, ph, & soil moisture, and plant stress from any cause. Lots of things for a grower to consider.

[Last edit: 07/18/24 6:27:28 PM]

7/18/2024 6:26:47 PM

Kutztown, PA

This year I have to 1908's. Both plants were pollinated on the same day and had pumpkins approximately the same size. One pumpkins aborted at 50 lb. on one of the plants and I haven't been able to get another pollination since. The other pumpkin is 303 29 DAP. Maybe all the really hot weather and to much rain. My 150 pumpkin split like a hand grenade yesterday after it rained again. LOL

7/19/2024 10:39:18 AM

Grittyville, WA

303 @ DAP 29 isnt shabby! Keep them healthy. I wonder if there is a boron/exploding pumpkin link. I think there is with baby tomatoes, but it could also be calcium or other micronutrients. Rain... They're supposed to grow faster, not explode :(

7/19/2024 12:32:15 PM

Arlington, MN

it does suck. plant is about 800 square feet and looking peferct except for not having a pumpkin growing. giving it till next weekend and then going to pull the plant and cut my loses on it.

7/19/2024 3:48:12 PM

Kutztown, PA

I might give mine another few days, there's a couple of females developing but they look a little weak. Good thing about pulling it is that it's growing on the edge of the other plant so when its gone it will allow for some better ventilation.

7/19/2024 4:03:49 PM

Syracuse, NY

Any plant I've ever kept after having thought I'd remove it has been worth keeping if not literally the length of my table top, here @ like 4 feet on like today's date. I KNOW I'm doing something(s) wrong and what it is and will correct it(s) starting tomorrow. I can't believe that 2 of my FPs have grown almost equally as well as ones in the ground - in plastic cups. THEY probably didn't have the same regimen as any other - knocked over, allowed to dry out several times and yet, eager to please. They can surprise you. One of my 'nothing-to-see-here, folks' plants had a big, 'ol' bloom on it tonight for tomorrow and I had not though it was for another day, minimum.
'Here I am - Rock You Like A Hurricane'
I was like 'Okay!' Laters---eric g

7/19/2024 11:54:58 PM