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The North Coast

Easy to see that weights are not increasing at the same rate as other competitive fruits. How can we as a group change this over the next decade? Our limitations are not techniques but genetics. Any thoughts on how to improve genetics outside of what we do now?

12/2/2017 10:25:59 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

What I’ve been trying to do is combine the old with the new.
Collecting old seeds such as a 255 Mitchell,239 Leonard,157 Bright,....etc
And pollinating with new proven seeds.
251 Kent,199.5 Mudd,350 Kent,....etc,etc,
I then take the offspring and self/sib it.
Next year I use that as the mother and pollinate with a new seed.

Don’t know if it makes a difference genetically,but the goal (in my mind) anyway is to hopefully present a seed with an impeccable bloodline.

12/2/2017 2:16:59 PM

Fenton, MI

Ben, I think you are on the right track, as the old school Genetics has help get us where we are at now. If you look back on a lot of the top seed today you will find some of them in most.
So you younger growers ( under 70 )may have to carry the ball on this one, because we don't have 10 years to make up new genetic. I am sure we will help for as long as we can though.
We just want to grow one or two more big melons.

12/2/2017 6:24:21 PM

Liberty nc

need to find a better engine

12/2/2017 6:27:47 PM

SW Ohio

A couple of things stand out to me.

1. We need to insist our data is entered at the weigh offs. If you look at the stats, many weigh offs dont enter OTT, mother/father seed, etc. It would be nice to know that info when you’re trying to choose seeds,
2. The WR holder told me several years ago that we all need to step up to the plate and hand pollinate. Our genetics will get better with more controlled crosses to add into the gene pool. I believe he is right and that this may be the biggest reason why our weights are not keeping up with other categories.

12/2/2017 7:53:59 PM

Partlow,Va

If most large melons are grafted how do you know what is a good melon seed? Is it the roots or the melon genetics? It is of course a combination of both.

I think there should be a * by the grafted melons at least and also what rootstock used could be listed. When the best growers grow melon plants without melon roots to go huge is that moving melon genetics forward?

There is no way to know exactly which of the large melons grown were natural. I think selecting the largest natural melons grown and planting and crossing them will move melons forward.

12/2/2017 10:22:46 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Hank, I agree to a certain point. Certainly, all GPC weigh off sites should have the * (grafted) in their data chart for all melons, CC's or others! & root stock used would be a beneficial bit of knowledge to move melon weights upwards. I don't think that large natural melons will happen anymore, b/cause most big time melon growers are grafting! BB2 is also spot on!!! But hand pollination of melons, is a lot more work, than pkns!
PS...my other piece of advice, buy a camel!! LOL Peace, Wayne

12/3/2017 12:52:33 AM

Bethlehem CT

Nate, you ask a great question. I have often wondered why the weights of the watermelons have not skyrocketed like the pumpkins. A few ideas of why this might be so have already been stated.
1)There are fewer melon growers than pumpkin growers. So there are less seeds out there being grown and tested. If we look at the pumpkins, we see that every so often a freak pumpkin is grown, From these freak pumpkins all of todays competitive giants are grown. The line begins with the 1,063 Wallace which led to the 1385 Jutras, Which led to the 1725 Harp, which led to the 2009 Wallace, which led to the 2145 McmMullen) from these freak pumpkin the weights have been increased, solely by inbreeding. Are the Carolina Cross genetic lines as inbred as the AG's? If so why haven't we been able to isolate any more size out of them.
2)Many melon growers, myself included don't take the time to hand pollinate. (I agree this is a big, big factor)
3) There are other factors that help to muddy the waters too. Grafting may discourage growers from being concerned about genetics. It always poses the question; Was it the melon or was it the rootstock? For example a certain melon seed may grow very big melons when grafted on a certain rootstock. That same seed may not have as much potential if grown on it's own roots or a different type of rootstock. Melon flowers are smaller and hand pollination requires a lot more observation and proper timing. Ag's just seem easier to hand pollinate. I like to compare the hand pollination of melons to playing with the little block legos(melons) vs the big block legos (AG's)

12/3/2017 7:39:32 AM

Bethlehem CT

Another question that is worth asking is this; Could it be that we are already near the ceiling for weights on watermelon? That there just isn't any more size to be brought out of the genetics. I know that is a negative question to ask, I remember thinking that they had reached the top AG weight back in 07 when Joe Jutras shattered the world record with a 1689 pounder. The world record is nearly one thousand pounds greater now! How wrong was I? Hopefully this is the case with melons too. That there is much more potential to be unlocked, we are just waiting for that silver bullet seed to advance the sport to the next level. Or perhaps there is a cultural adjustment that we could make to bring weights up. Look at how much the weights went up in pumpkins after they discovered the role of mycorrhizae in the root system.

12/3/2017 7:48:14 AM

Bethlehem CT

My gut answer on the question that Nate asked is that we just don't have the number of growers out there across the country really focusing on the breeding and advancing of the sport. Chris and a few others are doing there very best to advance the sport. But that is not enough, there are dozens and dozens of AG growers who are dead serious about pumpkins and are at the very top of the hobby, striving to advance the weights. (they all work together too, for the most part)
Giant squash was in a similar predicament as the melons are now. They just didn't have as many growers out there. The genetics were not being tested and the weights were stagnant. A few growers were able to jump start the weights in the squash by crossing the Competition strain AG's into the squash lines, then back crossing to stabilize the green again. This was a silver bullet solution. What could we possibly put into the CC genetics that aren't there. Would it help to cross in Black Diamond or possibly another variety with some disease resistance? ( i.e.'Crimson Sweet', Jubilee II) With the Black Diamond and disease resistant types, I think this would lead us backward in weights. (at least it would at first) Who wants to sacrifice and grow smaller melons?

12/3/2017 8:06:29 AM

Bethlehem CT

Another observation, Ag growers are now tissue testing there plants through out the growing season to determine the plants nutritional needs. How many melon growers are doing that? And if they are, do we even know where the nutrient levels need to be? Which ones we need to focus on? Ron Wallace discovered several years ago about the importance of Boron in the growth of big pumpkins. Now all growers are aware of the importance of Boron and how it inter-relates with calcium.

12/3/2017 8:16:51 AM

Maybe we are to quick to say that our growing techniques are not our limitations.

12/3/2017 8:52:08 AM

Liberty nc

I’m with you frank growing the same way every year brings the same results. have to be willing to change what you know an do to see what that outcome will bring. Last three years I’ve change the way I grow a little every year an have saw what the changes have done for me. But if I could just borrow your camel I know that would help out a lot.

12/3/2017 9:13:51 AM

Home of happy lil plants

I'm set in my ways don't argue frank

12/3/2017 12:18:22 PM

East Tennessee

Tissue testing here

12/3/2017 1:54:03 PM

sevierville, Tn

I have a 302 kent X JBD cross i did in 2016 on the plant that grew my 318 if anyone wants to grow those.
I have been tissue testing for two years, it tells me i need alot more nutrient work with my plants !

12/3/2017 2:09:01 PM

sevierville, Tn

Any ideas on what we should change Frank ???? Besides camels ! LOL

12/3/2017 2:09:41 PM

Corryton, TN

In reference to the original question it's my opinion that self pollinating plants is our fastest way to increase weights genetically assuming the genes are there to do so. If you do this with all your melons you will not be using a dud on your best melon producer.
Step 1: The idea is to produce seeds that will consistently pass on the genes that made them large and selfing guarantees that you pollinated your best plant with your best plant.
Step 2:After a generation or two mix a little fire and ice. Plant another line that has been bred in a similar manner but not necessarily for the exact same traits but they need to be capable of producing BIG. Since we don't know how many or which genes it takes to get to 1000 pounds we've got to start stacking all that we can whether it is length, girth, lobe count, rind density, center texture, hollow heart elimination, fewer seeds (less air around seeds), more seed (maybe seeds are heavier per cu in), growing time, etc. You get the idea.
Next generation - repeat step 1

12/3/2017 2:20:20 PM

South Arkansas

The original strand request referred to improving genetics and that is a good question. The genetics currently being used is a shuffling and reshuffling of watermelon genes that trace back largely to two watermelons. Finding a new source of genes for larger fruit for the future could be interesting. Until that happens, the bet option for improving watermelon size probably could be linked with the growing techniques of Team Jeremy and Team Wayne. It would be neat if they and a few agronomists and soil lab reps could put on a weekend program on how to grow record melons. Maybe the teams could meet mid way or at a location like the Peabody in Memphis.

12/3/2017 2:28:28 PM

sevierville, Tn

Which two melons Lloyd ??

12/3/2017 4:27:53 PM

formerly RGG

Here is something to consider that will probably never be accomplished by anyone.But never say never, so here goes. Why not go back to scratch and find the heaviest fat or round melon out there and also find the longest heavy melon growing and cross them enough times to develop a huge melon with entirely new genetics? This would sort of follow the process of the development of the Carolina Cross strain. Then at some point perhaps even try crossing this new variety back into Carolina Cross. It would be a multi year process but might possibly open up this hobby to some major genetic improvements and average weight gain increases.Then graft the best results onto a great rootstock and perhaps grow some new world records.Just a silly thought maybe but I do believe it will take some innovative process to advance this hobby significantly.

12/3/2017 6:32:03 PM

formerly RGG

I agree with the common sentiment. If you do the same thing you did last year you will probably not see a lot of difference in your final results. The growers who push the envelope are the ones who may see much different results. Granted that often times the results will not be fantastic. But once in a while a grower may do something different that allows him to shine and maybe win a few contests.

12/3/2017 9:01:16 PM

NE Arkansas

I tissue test, I graft, there are lots of rootstock options out there. Some growers are NOT gonna tell you what rootstock they used and that's just part of the game. There are multiple grafting methods and determining which is better is another key. I used 2 grafting methods last year and 2 rootstocks... the 291.4 was a different graft and rootstock from the 298.5... also 2 different seeds too

12/3/2017 9:05:34 PM

NE Arkansas

I also think we (most of us are get members) should have a winter meeting in either Nashville or Memphis and sit down a discuss ways and things to do to advance size.

12/3/2017 9:06:59 PM

formerly RGG

And thank you again Nathan for introducing our group of giant growers to the awesome world of grafted plants. Had it not been for you, the world record would be significantly less than it is today. Of course Chris had a lot to do with it also. Produce a awesome grafted plant, plant it in new ground atop a mountain in Tennessee, and let this plant be managed by a guy who already has a world record and then throw in a good year by Mother Nature and presto out came a melon that was totally amazing. The pictures of the 350.5 are awesome but you had to see this melon in person to really appreciate it's size. I was awestruck the day I traveled to the Kent home and witnessed this melon still growing under it's shade tent. It was simply hard to believe how large this melon really was. And at the weigh-off all the other melons just looked completely outclassed. Everyone I talked to was just amazed.My hat is off to the grower who beats that one.

12/3/2017 9:15:49 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

This is a great topic.
Good discussion from many fantastic growers.
Thanks guys.

12/3/2017 10:54:26 PM

South Arkansas

Chris, I think most of the current extra large watermelons trace back to the 1983 and 1985 world records. The 1985 seeds make five lobed fruit and photos of the 1983 record visually suggest it to be a four or five lobed fruit. Seeds of both melons were widely distributed. Ronald Bowers of TN took seed combinations of both when he went to Nova Scotia to visit Howard Dill and that helped distribute good watermelon seeds to pumpkin growers.

12/3/2017 10:58:53 PM

sevierville, Tn

So what would we add to give us a shot at improving the line? The JBD is one that comes to mind.
Lloyd, whats your thoughts on this. I believe it is half Carolina cross correct ??

12/4/2017 8:08:34 AM

sevierville, Tn

if we take the two records, 350 for cc , and 205 for JBD, just an ave would give a 277 potential for the cross. Any hybred vigor could give that a boost. or worst would be say 225-250 ish ?? thoughts anyone ??

12/4/2017 8:21:18 AM

Waynesboro, Virginia

IMHO...this is searching for genetic mutations.That's what giant vegetables are.
Molecular plant breeding is what its called today and ATOMIC GARDENING not that long ago.
These mutational breeding techniques are still extensively used today although they tend to use chemical or enzymatic mutation instead of radiation now.The latest suite of plant breeding techniques, often referred to as "GENOME EDITING" techniques, are directed mutational breeding. That is they allow targeting the mutation we want to introduce into the DNA instead of just making thousands of mutations and hoping to get the one we want.Radiation is still alive and well.

12/4/2017 9:50:42 AM

Waynesboro, Virginia

Today, Japan has an institute that utilizes a field very similar to the gamma gardens at Brookhaven. The International Atomic Energy Agency and the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations also have a joint plant-breeding team still conducting radiation breeding research.

Because of radiation breeding experiments, there are over 2000 plant varieties that have been released into the global food system. These include a strain of wheat in Italy, varieties of rice throughout Asia, certain pears in Japan, and a breed of sunflower in the United States, just to name a few. The Rio Star grapefruit also came about because of radiation breeding experiments and now accounts for about 75% of the grapefruit grown in Texas.

12/4/2017 9:52:12 AM

South Arkansas

I would prefer a cross of 350 Kent seeds with 245 Bartoli seeds followed by a distribution of seeds to growers that will self pollinate the offspring. Growers would probably be disappointed in the appearance of a CC and JBD cross. A cross with something of a different gene pool would be a good option. Watermelons in the 200 pound range were grown in Afghanistan at one time. Watermelons across the Stan countries and area would likely offer new genes. The seeds though would need to come from known native large melons.

12/4/2017 9:53:36 AM

NE Arkansas

How many growers have the 245 Bartoli? I have 4 that came from him. The other options are the 200 Mudd (245 Bartoli x self). We grew it this year and selfed it... the 253.4 Lindley (200 Mudd x self). Now that is a 2nd generation self.

12/4/2017 1:41:23 PM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

I've asked this before, and will again:
Which, if any, plant exhibits unusually aggressive rooting along the vine? I think this is something to enhance by breeding, kinda like crossing AGs to increase % heavy.

12/4/2017 6:36:28 PM

The North Coast

Fascinating conversation. Let's keep working to evolve this idea into some sort of workable plan. I am willing to grow specific plants to assist in this effort.

12/5/2017 8:26:20 AM

The same people are growing the largest melons every year so it must be the techniques. Other folks are growing the same
genetics but with different results. Maybe if the folks growing the largest melons would change their techniques a little they may be able to grow even bigger. (listen Spencer)

12/5/2017 8:58:58 AM

NE Arkansas

So Frank what do you think the best rootstock is for growing bigger melons?

12/5/2017 9:39:01 AM

Bethlehem CT

I have a question, specifically for Jeremy and Chris but also anyone else that wants to chime in. Do you have a preferred rootstock? Do you have a preferred grafting technique? (i.e. hole insertion, side cotyledon etc.) Or are your results still inconclusive as to what is the best method.

12/5/2017 10:09:59 AM

Bethlehem CT

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=30&p=461664

This old thread was a good read. I had forgotten the 245 Bartoli was a CCxCrimson sweet.
Lloyd is right we may not have to reinvent the wheel, we could use the 245 as a starting point. The Crimson Sweet melon is known for it's disease resistance and they are dense with smaller seeds. A very good eating melon.

12/5/2017 10:18:21 AM

Lexington, Ky

The same people keep taking all the prize money as well and that's likely why technique(s) will never be openly shared. I have zero problem with that either, it's up to me to catch the pack.

12/5/2017 10:21:22 AM

Bethlehem CT

One interesting thing about crossing is the idea of enhanced vigor. The "black Diamond" line that I have is from Cliff Knight he claimed it started with a CC that had been inadvertently crossed with a neighbors 'Moon and Stars' melon. I had one grow to 106.5 pounds in my garden this year and I don't give my melons any special care. Plus, my climate is not ideal.

12/5/2017 10:23:53 AM

The rampart gourd grew the world record and it was hole insertion. So one would think this may be the way to go.

12/5/2017 10:32:25 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

Speaking of grafting, what is the long term failure rate folks are seeing with these grafts to gourds? I have seen that the graft takes just fine but halfway thru the season they start failing. I have heard this happen from other growers using approach, single cotyledon and hole insertion so that tells me maybe a better rootstock is needed with better compatibility. I'm a relatively new growers so I'm just guessing here.

12/5/2017 10:47:25 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

My long term failure rate was around 50% my first year, all grafts were nice and strong looking until July/August.

12/5/2017 10:48:36 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

Just a comment on the Bartoli seeds, I grew a 306 Bartoli this year and turned out to be my smallest melon and also looked just like a giant crimson sweet. Pretty melon though, just small at around 190lbs.

12/5/2017 10:49:51 AM

Liberty nc

Is it spring yet?

12/5/2017 12:21:33 PM

sevierville, Tn

gonna snow soon, so nope, no spring.

12/5/2017 1:34:32 PM

sevierville, Tn

Rampart gourd seems to be the go to rootstock. that said any of them seem to do well. I believe Frank used a bushel gourd for some this year, as have i in the past. Jeremy Lindly used a pear gourd with sucess. The rampart is just a bottle gourd about as big as a gallon milk jug.

12/5/2017 1:37:28 PM

sevierville, Tn

correct me if i'm wrong on these root stock guys ????

12/5/2017 1:38:01 PM

Chapel Hill, NC

No I believe you Chris, I'm just wondering what yall's failure rate is on these gourds as they are all family=Lagenaria so basically the same thing. My failure rate I felt was high at 50%. It does me no good to have an incredible rootstock if I can't finish the melon because we all know once that rootstock starts to come apart even if you save it by intensive care nursing your melon is not going to finish well.

12/5/2017 2:00:31 PM

Chapel Hill, NC

Correct genus=lagenaria

12/5/2017 4:11:27 PM

Grant, AL

This was a bad year for me on melons due in part to some bad luck early on but I did use this season to do some experimenting. I set up a hydroponic system with tomatoes and basil using perlite as my growing media and grew the plants in 3-4 gallon buckets with a drain valve 1" from the bottom of the bucket to keep water from pooling up and killing the plants. My results were amazing with excellent root growth and great sustained growth until cold weather killed the tomato plants in mid November. I bring this up because I was wondering if y'all guys think meons could benefit from using a soilless media like perlite in the planting hole? Do you think is would allow for better drainage around the stump in turn keeping the stump healthy longer and leading to a longer duration of sustained growth for the melon? Also, do you think that planting the stump in a soilless media cut down on disease problems even if the roots dextend past this media? All of the roots on my hydro plants grew in perlite and I had no disease problems. Could this lead to higher weights guys?

12/5/2017 4:12:01 PM

Liberty nc

Ok no more sugar coating nothing Todd Frank Chris give us your secrets! We the people demand them! Lol

12/5/2017 6:57:51 PM

East Tennessee

VIAL FOR PRESIDENT!!! Make melons great again.

12/5/2017 7:10:52 PM

Chapel Hill, NC

I second Jeremy’s motion

12/5/2017 7:53:34 PM

Grant, AL

In the words of President Vial “we the people in order to grow a more perfect melon demand to know your secrets” lol.

12/5/2017 8:05:14 PM

Andrew one of the techniques for growing a big melon is you need a camel. The uglier the camel the bigger the melons. You may want to ask for a ugly camel for Christmas. (listen up Spencer)

12/5/2017 8:10:33 PM

Chapel Hill, NC

In other words Andrew they ain’t telling us jimmy jack shiz. Maybe we need to develop our own ‘melon patch spy technology’ complete with spy drones.

12/5/2017 8:54:06 PM

formerly RGG

There is nothing like fresh soil or soil-less growing medium for that matter to cut down on root affecting disease. Drainage is another thing. If you have a good raised bed and some good agricultural sand or small pea gravel there is little improvement to be done in the way of excellent drainage. On the other hand if you are trying to grow in hard clay in a bottom area somewhere, then your roots would probably greatly appreciate it if you added a bunch a perlite to your clay. This would help a tremendous amount in allowing your roots to breathe due to improved drainage and also to help avoid soil carried diseases that can hamper your plants health.

12/5/2017 9:04:10 PM

Nakina NC

If anyone knows where where the Camel and Chris keep their growing journels, I will have a few free days over Christmas and on Breaking and Entering charges. 1st offense we would probably only get probation at worst. But Hey, we would have the secrets. Who's in

12/5/2017 9:15:11 PM

Nakina NC

Kiddnapping the Camel would cause us to pull time and miss the 2018 grow season. Told you guys I had a plan for 2018.

12/5/2017 9:17:11 PM

NE Arkansas

I'll comment on my 2017 grafts... I can't tell you which is better as the hole insertion grew 291.5, 262, and single cot grew 298.5, 253.5, and 253.4. We also had 2 graft failures early both on hole insertion grafts and 2 around dap 75-80 both on single cot grafts.

12/5/2017 9:25:57 PM

NE Arkansas

That's incorrect on early failures it was 1 of each hole insertion and single cot

12/5/2017 9:27:42 PM

NE Arkansas

I think another key to growing them big is distance from the stump... too close = too much pressure... too far = not enough pressure

12/5/2017 9:31:25 PM

sevierville, Tn

I have no secrets, only lots of hard work. Ask anyone who has been here. Jeremy terry, Andrew vial, tn dreamer.
in the words of tricky dickie.... I am not a crook !

12/5/2017 9:33:01 PM

sevierville, Tn

here is a link to the test I did last winter of the 302 x JBD

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=285267

12/5/2017 9:33:51 PM

Liberty nc

It is definitely a job to grow the way you do chris.

12/5/2017 10:04:35 PM

Grant, AL

I'm going to grow a couple next year with the planting hole filled with perlite to allow better drainage around the stump. Maybe the perlite will allow for better early season root growth also and give me a bigger plant earlier and possibly have a positive affect on plant health during the season. Any thoughts?

12/5/2017 10:19:03 PM

Grant, AL

Frank has a camel...I think Chris has a magic wheelbarrow!

12/5/2017 10:24:26 PM

sevierville, Tn

i put enough miles on my wheelbarrow thats for sure. they wear out after 2-3 years !

12/5/2017 10:29:45 PM

Grant, AL

Definitely if you use it to transport YOUR watermelons!!

12/5/2017 10:36:05 PM

formerly RGG

I think Chris needs to move up to a good sized wagon for his big melons.lol

12/6/2017 1:49:18 AM

If the purpose of grafting is disease control why would you want your melon vines to root at the leaf nodes?(listen Spencer)

12/6/2017 8:06:50 AM

East Tennessee

Is the purpose of grafting disease control???

12/6/2017 8:24:53 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

That is what I have always been told but I believe an added benefit is a more robust rootstock than natural thus more nutrients available = bigger melon so I believe it has 2 benefits

12/6/2017 11:17:03 AM

Grant, AL

Alright Frank if you don’t want the leaf nodes rooting in order to obtain better disease control then planting in soil would result in the same disease risks wouldn’t it?

12/6/2017 1:37:32 PM

I think gourds are somewhat disease resistant maybe

12/6/2017 2:01:02 PM

South Arkansas

As I understand, allowing the vines to root into the soil would defeat the purpose of grafting to overcome diseased soil.

12/6/2017 2:29:20 PM

Liberty nc

I found a camel!!! pic in diary. I’m getting that you don’t want the vines to root in. Any others reasons why you should prevent it besides disease control? Would allowing the vines to root in effect how the rootstock works in growing the fruit?

12/6/2017 2:59:03 PM

Lets say for example that each time you spray a fungicide there was a immediate negative effect on the weight of the melon even though you only sprayed the plant. The melon grows for 100 days and you spray every 7 days. How many pounds are you losing by this method. If you can cut the number of times you spray in half you can cut the number of pounds you lose in half maybe. (listen Spencer)

12/6/2017 3:55:05 PM

Liberty nc

that’s some net information I was not aware of. What would you prefer for a ground cover? I think most use the cheap landscape fabric. Would the woven poly be a better choice?

12/6/2017 4:54:12 PM

NE Arkansas

Since we grow 8 or more plants each year I try to grow atleast 1 older seed that's not widely grown and try to see how it does with newer growing methods. I think that's something that all growers should do. It's possible to find a great trait and not bottleneck genetics.

12/6/2017 7:25:23 PM

Home of happy lil plants

I'm listening, just hard of hearing

12/6/2017 10:00:23 PM

Bethlehem CT

I believe the main reason that melon growers do grafting is for disease resistance. But grafting is used for other reasons too, depending on what crop you are growing and what your needs are. Grafting can contribute to earlier fruiting, dwarfing (like in fruit trees), bigger more vigorous plants, more cold tolerance, drought tolerance, heat tolerance, bigger fruit, nematode resistance more tolerance to wet soils etc. I am sure there are more that I am not remembering.

12/7/2017 7:14:15 AM

Bethlehem CT

Lloyd that is my understanding as well. If the grafted plants root, then they would be losing the benefit of the disease resistance. Perhaps there vigor and ability to grow large melons would increase due to the larger root system. As long as no soil born diseases were present then it might be worth the risk of allowing the melons to root along the vines.

12/7/2017 7:17:51 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

I may try rooting one of my traditionals this year at the vine as an experiment. Nothing to lose really since it is a trad.

12/7/2017 11:47:40 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

Hold on now, is it being said that regular fungicide applications stunt a melon's growth?

12/7/2017 2:34:43 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

I’ve been rooting the vine the melon is on for a couple years now.
Can’t really say if it helps or not.
I have tried a few grafts,but only as practice.
I have a small space,so I might only have room for one or two melons.
If I tried a graft,and it went down 60 days in,my season would be over.

12/7/2017 6:13:27 PM

Corryton, TN

Genetic anomalies could be one answer to increased weights. If anyone out there wants to try a seed from a plant that produced an 8 lobed female email me (228 Carson 90 x self). Also used as a pollinator on a 290 Mudd. The 290 out performed a couple 305 Mudd seeds in my patch. 305 and 290 are the same cross from different years. I'll be putting both in the ground next season. brotherdave01@aol.com

12/9/2017 7:31:47 AM

formerly RGG

Eight lobes would sure be a great way to grow if a grower could get that to happen. Breeding a line of plants that produced melons with more than 5 lobes could provide some big weight increases I believe.Selecting a pollination with extra lobes may possibly be more important than the position of a melon on it's vine.

12/9/2017 4:00:40 PM

NE Arkansas

I'll set a 8 lobe on any size plant for the future for sure

12/9/2017 6:18:42 PM

Chapel Hill, NC

Can you tell by looking at the female flower how many lobes there are?

12/10/2017 10:06:38 AM

Corryton, TN

Yes
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=273845
htttp://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=273846
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=219163
last one is a 3 with male parts

12/10/2017 12:28:25 PM

formerly RGG

Dave, your second address somehow got a extra t in the http. And this was the best picture. So here is the correct address for that page for anyone with a viewing problem:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=273846

12/11/2017 5:22:26 AM

formerly RGG

I do have to say that is a most impressive blossom.

12/12/2017 6:26:31 AM

Corryton, TN

Had this one come up a few years back. Tried to self it but couldn't get one to stick in the heat.
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=285328
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=285329

12/12/2017 7:23:04 AM

The North Coast

Without a doubt I would show your seed some good dirt Brother Dave. I'll get an email out soon. Being realistic here and say that I'm not going to grow the next WR. I'm more interested in advancing genetics as well as new techniques.

12/12/2017 8:24:09 AM

NE Arkansas

People who are 100% worried about previous melon size should give up that idea as we grew 219.5 lbs from a 33 lb melon made for a genetic cross only.

12/12/2017 5:50:28 PM

formerly RGG

Large melon size may be an indication of good genetics but small melon size is certainly no indication of poor genetics.I know Chris has made some late pollinations on good plants that produced late and predictably small melons. But the seeds from these have gone on to grow some monster sized melons. One example I remember clearly is the 113 Kent. I think it produced great genetics and if I were still able to grow, I would certainly feel good about growing it once again.

12/12/2017 6:39:00 PM

sevierville, Tn

ah good memories, the 113 kent. was always the best in the patch. still have them in the freezer i bet.
it was the 267 Edwards 08 X 239 leonard 08

12/12/2017 9:41:42 PM

Grant, AL

I think I have a few 113s that you sent me Chris. That is a great cross! The only time I grew the 267 Edwards I grew a 209 lb melon from it. I might grow both next year.

12/12/2017 10:06:18 PM

Liberty nc

Looking forward to growing the 113 Kent also this year. Been one of the top seeds I wanted to plant this summer.

12/13/2017 8:48:16 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

You going to auction any this year Chris ?

12/13/2017 4:35:26 PM

sevierville, Tn

yes the clubs should have my seeds considering the number of bubbles i got. watch the auctions and help the clubs.

12/13/2017 11:24:24 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

Awesome.
Thanks.

12/14/2017 9:29:35 AM

formerly RGG

My personal best of 228.5 was grown from the 113 Kent seeds. It was grown in too much shade next to the woods at the bottom of my lot and the plant was taken down early by spider mites. If I had known about and treated for spider mites at the time, I am sure the melon would have grown considerably larger. I am actually somewhat surprised the 113 seeds are not in demand as I am very sure they constitute some of the very best genetics in our hobby. I think anyone who can talk Chris out of a few of these will be delighted with the results.

12/14/2017 5:33:30 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

That’s why I asked about the auctions Dennis.
I’m a nut about genetics !
I’ll be on the lookout for 113s at all the auctions this year !

12/14/2017 9:53:39 PM

formerly RGG

I don't believe Chris donated any 113's to be auctioned.Usually more recent seeds are donated. But if you ask him pretty please well then maybe ..........

12/15/2017 3:50:02 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

Pretty please Mr.Kent ?

12/15/2017 10:22:50 AM