From

Location

Message

Date Posted

NE Arkansas

So with the watermelon breeding tread having alot of input. What genetics and family trees do you think need to be crossed and why? If as a group we want to advance the size of melons as a whole?

12/16/2017 4:45:44 PM

East Tennessee

251 kent
199.5 mudd

12/17/2017 1:20:48 PM

NE Arkansas

I think the 245 Bartoli x something 239 Leonard.
@jsterry Frank's 332 and 321 are 305 mudd x 302 kent which is pretty much 251 Kent x 199 mudd

12/17/2017 7:53:54 PM

simpson,KS

165 Bright x 251 Kent X (350.5 KENT)

12/17/2017 7:54:52 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

Why the Bartoli Jeremy?

12/17/2017 8:11:09 PM

NE Arkansas

Well the 245 Bartoli has grown 3 over 300... (307 Bartoli and 326 Bartoli)
199.5 Mudd or 305 Mudd grown 2 over 300... (304 mudd and 332 mudd)
251 Kent or 302 Kent has grown 3 over 300... (315.5 Kent, 316 kent, and 318 kent)

12/17/2017 11:11:57 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Any 165 Bright's seeds still around? Peace, Wayne
Some one needs two to self?

12/18/2017 12:32:53 AM

Frankfort Ohio

The 302 also grew franks 321

12/18/2017 9:31:36 AM

NE Arkansas

@ Wayne are you talking about the 165 Bright blue rind?

12/18/2017 10:36:22 AM

NE Arkansas

I was also informed that the 245 Bartoli made multiple melons (7) over 300 lbs but Bartoli was limited to 2 GPC weigh offs.

12/18/2017 10:38:48 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

What was the cross on the Bartoli ?

12/18/2017 11:03:37 AM

NE Arkansas

Maybe Mr Lloyd will chime in on that. I'm pretty certain it is Bright genetics.

12/18/2017 1:14:27 PM

East Tennessee

"@jsterry Frank's 332 and 321 are 305 mudd x 302 kent which is pretty much 251 Kent x 199 mudd" YEP!!!

12/18/2017 1:15:12 PM

Corryton, TN

I assume we're talking 165 Bright 04

Wayne did it this past year and a few years back. First time it was 5 lobed, shorter looking because it was so fat and the best in the patch. This year 4 lobes, long and wide and again the best in the patch when you compare DAP gains.

Planning on a spot for both. Also seeds available from both.

12/18/2017 1:15:34 PM

NE Arkansas

295.5 Kent (251 Kent x self) was nothing but 5 lobe melons this past year for me. I selfed the plant but stump issues kept it on the smaller side of the other grafts at 214.5 lbs

12/18/2017 4:00:23 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

All the females were 5 lobes ?

12/18/2017 6:20:02 PM

NE Arkansas

Not every one but I had more 5 lobes than 4s

12/18/2017 7:56:38 PM

South Arkansas

As I understand, the Bartoli cousins started with a package of Bright seeds in 1999. They collected and planted their own seeds using open pollination. In the past few years they have hand pollinated.

12/18/2017 9:03:45 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

my 160 this year was a 5 lobe.
The plant was my 180 from last year,which was a 255 Mitchell x self.
I pollinated it with a 290 Kent.

12/18/2017 10:29:18 PM

Corryton, TN

My mistake: My Bright crosses were 157 Bright 04 not 165's. I don't know anything about a 165 Bright

12/19/2017 7:10:06 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

You have seeds for those crosses brotherdave ?

12/19/2017 8:35:24 AM

Corryton, TN

Yes. Free for the asking.

12/19/2017 9:14:41 AM

NE Arkansas

I also have a couple 157 Bright crosses
166.96 Lindley (157 Bright x self)
160 Lindley (157 Bright x sibb)

12/19/2017 9:57:55 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

I’d like a few if you could spare them brotherdave.

12/19/2017 1:03:53 PM

Corryton, TN

E you have mail.

12/19/2017 1:34:11 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

Email sent brotherdave.

12/19/2017 7:32:56 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Oh, I see...it's a conspiracy to help the field team!!! LOL Peace, Wayne
PS...Grow em BIG & let the best weight's win! & Happy Holidays to all!!!

12/19/2017 11:15:12 PM

Corryton, TN

Back to the original question. There a several seeds that stand out to me that should be used more/again. One of the first ones would be the 291 Kent 2010. It's track is second to none in my opinion. It was the world record in 2010. Produced 5th in largest in 2011. 9th in 2012. Current world record in 2013. 3rd in 2014. 6th in 2015. Since then virtually no use. If I was a grafter I'd go back to the well and self the plant. Odds are in favor that there are seeds from the 291 that can go over 350 that it produced.

12/21/2017 9:09:55 AM

NE Arkansas

I'm with you on the 291 Kent, Dave... I plan to grow it this coming season.

12/21/2017 2:13:37 PM

East Tennessee

The 291 is a great seed and can no doubt grow a big melon, but....I believe it has done its job and has been instrumental in moving melons forward to the point where I feel more confident in the genetics of the newer, bigger seeds of today with the 291 in their family trees.

12/21/2017 5:32:36 PM

The North Coast

The 291 is a very special melon. I'd grow that every single year if I could. It is the king maker.

12/21/2017 7:55:56 PM

NE Arkansas

I think you are wrong JT... I think it is just as good if not better than most seeds. JT if you grow the 305 Mudd or 316 Dawson you are growing older or the same year genetics as the 291 Kent. The 316 Dawson is from a seed from 2007. Nothing in it's lineage has changed. No cross pollination. Same as the 305 Mudd. It's from the 199.5 Mudd from 2010 and selfed. So nothing changed in that line either except being grafted. So it went 105.5 lbs bigger. Does that mean the 291 Kent has 396 potential grafted? If not then why?

12/22/2017 1:03:58 AM

Grant, AL

I would like to see what you would get from a 291 Kent x 332 Mudd cross! A lot of great genetics in those two seeds!

12/22/2017 7:00:47 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

I think the old seeds still have a lot of potential.
Especially with the techniques and feeding programs we use today.
Who wouldn’t grow a grafted 239 Leonard?

12/22/2017 9:25:53 AM

East Tennessee

Read my post again. I clearly said the 291 was very capable of growing a big melon, and was in my opinion a great seed. What im saying is it has been instrumental in moving us FORWARD!

12/22/2017 1:11:55 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

Perhaps I misunderstood you then.
My apologies.

12/22/2017 1:13:45 PM

East Tennessee

Don’t apologize lol that was aimed more at Lindley anyway. We have been having these conversations thru txt msgs and brought em to this board. We are nevere gonna agree on everything (I dnt even agree with all I say lol) but the talks are good and we can all learn from them, so fire back.

12/22/2017 1:54:16 PM

NE Arkansas

@JT here are my thoughts... the 220 Bright from 1983... I have a few seeds from it... tell me why a 34 year old seed that was 2 lbs from the wr 34 years ago can't grow a WR grafted with today's methods... 34 years is alot of advancements... js...

12/22/2017 2:00:07 PM

East Tennessee

Ur missing my point here. I am not saying it couldn’t do it. If I had to choose only one, 302 kent or 220 bright, I choose the 302 kent all day every day, 2145 McMullen or 500 Wallace, 2145 all day every day.

12/22/2017 2:06:24 PM

NE Arkansas

I still think it needs to be crossed with other genetics...

12/22/2017 2:20:54 PM

Corryton, TN

I think the comparison would be more like the 2009 Wallace against one of the other big ones from 2015 excluding the 2145. The 2145 proved it can beat the 2009 (maybe not in every patch) but the 302 hasn't proven it can beat the 291 (yet).

12/22/2017 2:46:31 PM

East Tennessee

291 has grown one melon over 300 while the 302 has grown 4.

12/22/2017 2:57:07 PM

Frankfort Ohio

Ok guys just send me a few each of the 291 and the 302 and I will let you know what one is better next fall

12/22/2017 4:40:19 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

I’m with Jed.

12/22/2017 4:52:45 PM

East Tennessee

That wouldn’t be fair to either seed Jed. Now if Kaylee grows em thats a different story!

12/22/2017 5:13:56 PM

Liberty nc

There’s plenty of seeds out there that could have great potential. Old or new. Most will never get planted or even given a shot in anyone’s patch mostly because of space limitations an the last name of the person who grew it. I would take the 302 over most seeds just because of it proven potential. If I had more space an time I would grow other seeds

12/22/2017 5:16:55 PM

Frankfort Ohio

We are looking forward to growing this year playing with some grafting the next couple weeks since I'm off work

12/22/2017 5:27:43 PM

Frankfort Ohio

Well we all know that Chris and frank have been at the top of this hobby for a long time and in my opinion both can bring out the best of any cross and we all pick seeds based on what grew the top melons this year And we look at weight versus chart wonder if we should dig a little deeper and look at seeds that grew new personal best their might be a pattern to it let's say the 200 terry grew bob jack billy and Tim all personal best this year but the biggest melon grew on it was 250 it's going to get overlooked by most people but could possibly be a diamond in the ruff

12/22/2017 6:11:17 PM

East Tennessee

There is no way Billy grew a PB off the 200 Terry! Lol

12/22/2017 7:28:56 PM

NE Arkansas

Jed you are exactly right... I also pay attention to what Northern grows do well with... cause if a guy with less than ideal growing conditions can go 240 traditional then what could it do in the south? I try to tell the Northern guys to look at the Terry's pumpkins... what they are doing down here in hell could be 800 lbs more in the north

12/22/2017 8:06:16 PM

East Tennessee

Going back a few post I find it interesting that brotherdave said someone should graft the 291 and self it. Im starting to believe that we need to start selfing more. Jed I believe one of the “diamonds in the rough” may be Todds 270 dmg from this year. 318 selfed that was growing great until it puked out on the bottom. Doubt that it gets many chances but I’m giving it a shot this year. We never know with seeds that have never been grown but I like my chances with this one.

12/22/2017 9:35:50 PM

NE Arkansas

I like growing different stuff. It's why I grew the 272.5 k Neptune. Not many people had gave it a chance. I'm gonna revisit the 291 Kent and 350 Kent this upcoming season. We'll most likely grow 4 or 5 of our own too. Growing 10 plants gives us a chance to grow "unproven" plants.

12/22/2017 9:39:51 PM

Frankfort Ohio

I like todds 270 as well and I believe it was right around day 70 it quit growing well on pace for 300

12/22/2017 10:19:34 PM

NE Arkansas

Yeah Todd's 270 could be good too... it's from the 318 also... that's another reason I like my 291.4... it was 84 dap and still doing over 1 lb a day when I picked it.

12/23/2017 12:11:56 AM

Corryton, TN

A lot of good points made here. I agree with Jed plant them both! I've talked to several of the top growers and most have indicated that they thought a good graft adds a MINIMUM of 10% additional weight. The leaves are bigger, plants more aggressive, disease resistance, etc. I'M ALL FOR GRAFTING since this is a weight contest. When we compare seed production that is where it gets a bit foggy. If you add the estimated 10% to the traditionals or subtract it from the grafts the numbers are close with the 291 still producing the largest. The numbers lead me to believe the 291 has a monster or two left in her.

12/23/2017 8:03:28 AM

NE Arkansas

Dave I know where a few are supposed to be grown in 2018. It was the Grandmother to my 291.4 this year from the 272.5 K Neptune. I still think these melons habe some monsters in them
291 Kent
272.5 K Neptune
272.5 E Neptune (same cross as 251 Kent that grew the 302 Kent)
302 Kent
350.5 Kent (don't think people have grafted it enough)

12/26/2017 1:32:59 AM