From

Location

Message

Date Posted

NE Arkansas

With all the grear input on the watermelon breeding post, I thought we should break things down to the individual aspects of growing to help in the further advancement of watermelon size.
With that said... What grafting method do you feel is superior and what rootstock do you feel is superior? We all know the World Record was a Rampart Gourd with hole insertion graft. But what is working now and what do you think is best? Atlantic Giant, field pumpkins, certain type of gourd? Let's talk...

12/16/2017 4:50:37 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

What types of grafts did you use this year Jeremy.
I’ve only tried hole insertion myself.
And used fig leaf gourd for rootstock.
Plant did well,granted it never made it out of a 3 gallon pot.
More of an experiment really.

12/16/2017 8:07:37 PM

NE Arkansas

I used hole insertion and single cot... problem is the 298.5 was single cot and 291.4 was hole insertion... but different gourd rootstocks... so I'm up in the air which is better as 291.4 was 84 dap and 298.5 was 113 days old but stump leaked on 291.4 from dap 25... stump issues about dap 85 on 298.5... so there's that...

12/16/2017 10:33:02 PM

Grant, AL

What seed grew the 291.4 and 298.5 Jeremy?

12/16/2017 10:43:25 PM

Grant, AL

What rootstocks grew each?

12/16/2017 10:44:51 PM

NE Arkansas

The 291.4 was grown from the 272.5 K Neptune
The 298.5 was grown from the 302 Kent

12/17/2017 1:31:38 AM

NE Arkansas

See here's what worries me about the fig leaf gourd. It's technically a squash correct? Not really a true gourd. Like a rampart or bushel gourd. I feel here where I am the heat will be a problem just like it is with Atlantic giant plants. If it's a squash I feel the SVB will come into play more. Just hunches but worries for me cause of my weather. Do I think it could be a good grafting rootstock for the guys further north? Possibly. AG could be good or field pumpkin depending on your heat. Just my thoughts

12/17/2017 1:39:17 AM

Grant, AL

Sounds like you had better growth as far as per day average with the 272. I wonder if you grew the 272 next year with you using the hole insertion method but you use the rootstock that grew the 298.5 cause it seems like that rootstock stayed healthy longer.

12/17/2017 6:51:27 AM

Do you think the maturity days of the rootstock plays a part in the growth of the melon. (80 days 90 days 100 days) Wonder if Andrew is listening!!!

12/17/2017 8:32:45 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

I usually hear of stump problems from grafting occurring early on (30 days,60 days...)
Perhaps the rootstock is not strong enough for the melon ?

12/17/2017 9:31:06 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

Or perhaps grafting citrullus to lagenaria the long term graft genetic compatibility is just not there. It might work ok for commercial melons but not CC.

12/17/2017 9:56:18 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

I have a question.
The purpose of grafting is to increase disease resistance,plant vigor,etc...
Are we passing on in the seeds any of those qualities?

12/17/2017 10:33:51 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

The grafting itself will not change the genetics of the scion

12/17/2017 10:45:15 AM

NE Arkansas

Frank that is also what I wonder. Should we try and use the rootstock from a gourd that grows the longest individual fruit or a gourd plant that will make multiple cycles?

12/17/2017 11:43:35 AM

NE Arkansas

Charles I think some of the 298.5 stump issue was grower error. I believe I let the plant dry out too much and surged the water. It's something I've went back and looked at my notes on 50 times this off season.

12/17/2017 11:46:45 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

So there is no benefit to the offspring of said graft.
Thanks for clearing that up gwarren.

12/17/2017 1:41:35 PM

NE Arkansas

@ Esheel31- one benefit would be cleaner seeds with less disease.

12/17/2017 1:57:27 PM

Liberty nc

I’m listening.

12/17/2017 2:38:13 PM

East Tennessee

U may be listening but are u hearing?

12/17/2017 3:02:58 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

gotcha Jeremy.

12/17/2017 3:31:55 PM

NE Arkansas

Frank what rootstock was the 332 grown on?

12/17/2017 7:50:24 PM

Home of happy lil plants

Done went deaf here from all the listening

12/17/2017 11:51:25 PM

Liberty nc

Yes an I’m taking notes!

12/18/2017 12:21:49 AM

Bushel gourd

12/18/2017 7:55:30 AM

sevierville, Tn

and the 321 rootstock was for the record ???

12/18/2017 9:48:57 AM

sevierville, Tn

When you say "maturity days of the rootstock" are you meaning the DAP of the fruit or how long the vine lives ?

12/18/2017 9:52:55 AM

sevierville, Tn

My 316 and 315.5 were rampart for the record.

12/18/2017 10:03:36 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

yeah which is better, an older rootstock or younger? I'm not following here.

12/18/2017 10:07:40 AM

NE Arkansas

My 291.4 was Rampart gourd and the 298.5 was Pear gourd

12/18/2017 10:40:50 AM

NE Arkansas

@ Frank correct me if I'm wrong but I think what he's saying is Bushel gourd may be the better rootstock as it will grow a fruit for say 80 days vs rampart gourds growing say 40 days...

12/18/2017 10:48:03 AM

by maturity days I mean if you were going to just grow the rootstock how many days to maturity.

12/18/2017 10:51:11 AM

bushel gourd on 321.5 but different one from the 332

12/18/2017 10:58:51 AM

wonder if Andrew is writing this down!!!

12/18/2017 10:59:45 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

I am !

12/18/2017 11:05:04 AM

Do you think it makes a difference which gourd you get the seed from to use as a rootstock?

12/18/2017 11:18:03 AM

what I mean is if you had a choice between lets say two or three different bushel gourds.

12/18/2017 12:01:26 PM

Liberty nc

Pencil is on paper! Possible it could. Maybe you want one that was more aggressive in rooting or the biggest producer of fruit.? My mind is a sponge soak us with your knowledge

12/18/2017 12:03:28 PM

Liberty nc

Maybe not by actual weight but more ott

12/18/2017 12:15:44 PM

Chapel Hill, NC

I believe it does matter depending on its specific disease resistance.

12/18/2017 12:18:19 PM

East Tennessee

By maturity of the rootstock we are talking about from start to maturity of the plant, is this correct Frank? Example a Bushel Gourd's maturity days are around 140 days. Which BG seeds did you use for the 332 and 321? My guess is you didn't use seeds from Johnny's.

12/18/2017 1:12:47 PM

NE Arkansas

Well I can't say size of the gourd actually matter that much as the rootstock my 298.5 was attached to was only about 60 lbs.

12/18/2017 1:18:57 PM

You are correct Jeremy about the maturity of the rootstock. If you were going to use a bushel gourd it seems the offspring of the record bushel gourd might be the best bet for the rootstock. I think the maturity date for the bushel gourd is 120 days which makes it just about right for the watermelon maybe.

12/18/2017 1:24:58 PM

sevierville, Tn

I would think you want the best rootstock possible. Just like we try to plant the best plant possible. So if one BG is better than another, thats what i would choose

What grafting method did you use for both Frank ??

12/18/2017 1:29:23 PM

sevierville, Tn

These gourds will keep growing till frost. And keep producing . I guess thats what makes them such a good rootstock. Did you frank see any decline in the rampart vines that you grew out for gourds ??

12/18/2017 1:31:28 PM

Hole insertion method of grafting and the rampart gourds would
start off fast but seemed to not be able to last as long as the bushel gourd did for me. So maybe the maturity days of the rampart gourd may not be as long as the bushel gourd. I don't know the maturity days of the rampart gourd.

12/18/2017 1:47:59 PM

Andrew got a lot of writing to do.

12/18/2017 1:53:49 PM

My guess of the maturity days of the rampart gourd is 80 or 90 days.

12/18/2017 1:56:10 PM

East Tennessee

I can’t find anything on maturity days of Rampart but I would think because of what it was intended for that its 90 - 100 days. Chris how much for 20 seeds from ur 263 gourd?

12/18/2017 2:16:59 PM

Lexington, Ky

Does anyone have a picture of the rootstock/graft at the end of the season?

12/18/2017 2:37:37 PM

NE Arkansas

@ Wexler I do... I'll post some in my diary

12/18/2017 2:46:43 PM

NE Arkansas

This was a blown up union...

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryView
One.asp?eid=285380

12/18/2017 3:19:30 PM

Zimmerman, Minnesota

I’m going to try watermelon for the first time next spring. I’m in Minnesota which I know is way out of the watermelon honey hole. But I know nothing of grafting so I’m going traditional. Question...can watermelon only get big (300 plus pounds) on grafting? Would it be smart to grow traditional melons to get bigger and stronger, rather then relying on a non melon rootstock to get bigger and better melons? Is it technically a watermelon when all the plant below the ground is a gourd? Is there another melon, fruit, gourd, squash that could be crossed into it to increase size,weight, or vigor? I may try a graft but from what little I have researched there tends to be problems at the union on the stump.

12/18/2017 8:22:25 PM

SW Ohio

316 Edwards was grown traditional

12/18/2017 9:45:10 PM

NE Arkansas

296 Barber was traditional I believe... 297 Kent and 291 Kent were also traditional I think

12/18/2017 11:22:16 PM

NE Arkansas

Many watermelons you get from stores to eat are grafted melons. The graft is also used to keep disease down especially where you have to grow in the same place year after year

12/18/2017 11:27:47 PM

Lexington, Ky

Great images, thanks @jlindley

12/19/2017 6:39:46 AM

Bethlehem CT

Just about all the tree fruit you see at the store is grown on grafts.

12/19/2017 7:42:18 AM

Bethlehem CT

So yes it is still a melon.

12/19/2017 7:42:59 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

The strangest thing happened on one of my grafted plants this year. Some of the melons were really odd shaped just like a gourd and even had a different coloration than the rest of the melons. I know for a fact it was not because of regrowth from the rootstock as these were all approach grafted. I just found it a bit strange. It was one of the plants we lost to rotted stump so it didn't really matter though.

12/19/2017 8:33:00 AM

sevierville, Tn

So far if you look at the numbers, the Rampart is still in the lead with a higher average and more over 300, but that just may be because more ramparts have been used. This may change after 2018 if more use BG or other rootstock.

12/19/2017 9:41:33 AM

Liberty nc

Chris you sure did grow a couple nice bushel gourds this year. An your my friend. HINT HINT! Lol

12/19/2017 10:38:12 AM

NE Arkansas

Andrew back off... That's MY Uncle Chris...

12/19/2017 10:55:53 AM

sevierville, Tn

i'll let you in on a little secret if you promise not to tell Andrew, that 268 i grew was the 1st 4 lobe BG i have ever seen. Never seen any on others, only 3's all the years i have grown them. SShh its our secret... ok

12/19/2017 11:50:08 AM

Liberty nc

Did I mention how beautiful an big that bushel gourd was!! 😀

12/19/2017 1:07:08 PM

NE Arkansas

Andrew... call uncle todd...

12/19/2017 1:08:56 PM

Liberty nc

Oh an did I mention I will be coming up there soon? Sure wouldn’t mind seeing uncle Kent while I’m there. Lindley there all my uncles!

12/19/2017 1:25:08 PM

sevierville, Tn

don't worry andrew, lindley sent me the smallest bubble he could find, there is no room in it for BG seeds. ;)

12/19/2017 1:34:09 PM

Liberty nc

Lol

12/19/2017 1:52:14 PM

East Tennessee

You told me it was a 4 lobe on my visit and I never told a soul. That should be rewarded shouldn’t it?

12/19/2017 3:46:07 PM

NE Arkansas

As your Team Captain Chris.... lol

12/19/2017 4:08:00 PM

Home of happy lil plants

I still believe 350 is possible not grafted.

12/19/2017 7:14:44 PM

Liberty nc

Spence I think you are right an it could be done. But have you figured it out yet?

12/19/2017 7:47:08 PM

Pittsburgh, PA

All this grafting talk has perked my interest. I fired up my germination chamber and started some gourd seeds and watermelon seeds so I can try my hand at grafting. I don’t have room in the patch to grow melons but thought it would be something fun to do to pass the time until AG season starts back up.

12/19/2017 11:09:30 PM

The North Coast

Jay, growing watermelons is a great experience. There are many benefits to growing melons over kins. Most importantly, you Jay, could grow the next WR watermelon.

12/20/2017 8:04:29 AM

NE Arkansas

I hope this tread right here gets us to 400 lbs.

12/20/2017 9:15:38 AM

sevierville, Tn

Jay, you should practice grafting an AG, could turn out great.

12/20/2017 9:37:09 AM

Grant, AL

When starting bushel gourd seeds to use for rootstock, would you start your seeds before the melon seeds or at the same time? Also, where is best place to get good bushel gourd seeds?

12/20/2017 12:42:52 PM

Chapel Hill, NC

Depends on what graft you are doing. For single cot I've been starting rootstock 4 days ahead of scion. For hole insertion I would expect probably a week before scion.

12/20/2017 12:55:47 PM

sevierville, Tn

Since BG are so large, for 1 cot i would start them after the Scoin or for hole insertion at the same time

12/20/2017 1:17:20 PM

Chapel Hill, NC

never mind, I thought you were asking about bottle gourd

12/20/2017 1:20:24 PM

Pittsburgh, PA

Yeah I didn’t consider starting gourd seeds before the melon seeds because of different growth rates. I guess I’ll see what I end up with. And hmmm, I could potentially get rid of the edible veggie patch and grow a melon. Don’t think wife will be to happy with that though lol.

12/20/2017 7:29:36 PM

NE Arkansas

I start my melon seeds the day the rootstock pops regardless of the type of graft but that's just me...

12/20/2017 10:11:30 PM

The North Coast

This is a good instructional video on grafting. It shows idea level of maturity for both plants in order to do hole insertion. Main benefit of this technique is that the plants can have different stem diameters.

12/21/2017 7:51:09 PM

The North Coast

https://youtu.be/_0GwgMb0M3Q

The University of Arizona also has a good video on healing chamber design.

12/21/2017 7:51:58 PM

NE Arkansas

That is the video that taught me how to graft.

12/22/2017 12:52:51 AM

Eastern Shore of VA

Me too.

12/22/2017 9:29:19 AM

Home of happy lil plants

Thinking of growing wr longest melon next year here..... might need to find me a 249 bright

12/22/2017 7:20:02 PM

NE Arkansas

And then we have this guy ^^^^ haha

12/24/2017 12:06:53 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

jlindley...remind me one more time? LOL This guy is on your team? Could be possible termination of my team? How heavy is a 7 foot long watermelon? Peace, Wayne

12/25/2017 12:33:01 AM

sevierville, Tn

if it as wide as a long gourd... not very heavy. lol

12/25/2017 12:43:18 AM