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Bemidji Minnesota

Continual selfing and crossing of Giant Tomatoes

Hi all,

I got the tomato bug last year, after growing BZ for the first time. It got me thinking a bit about the competitive tomato hobby, and as far as I know the record of Gordon Graham still is there with his Mega Bloom from a 53ft vine growing on the ground. .

Many others have tried to beat it, and with some wonderfully huge tomatoes grown. Most of them from traded Heirlooms like certain strains of Delicious, Belgium Giants, and some super-hybrids like Big Zac.

What I am also thinking could be done, would be some way of making continuous improvements, similar to how Atlantic Giants have been bred.

This is only intend for brainstorming, and if you are already in the process of doing just this, I do not mean to step on any toes.

My suggested procedure to try and breed a “super tomato”, via a system of crosses and self pollination not much different than what has been done with AG’s. The only difference is that selection would be done with 12 plants of each variety, to get the best of each as F2’s do not always throw true, and we want to isolate those that happen to get the correct genes. Logically those with the correct genes should display them in the phenotype.

It may also help if single bloom flowers were used, as this gets and idea of what one tomato is like for the cross, and not just several of them grown together. There is something to be said for a tomato that “looks like” a tomato. Perhaps when competing the plants would be treated different and allowed to keep a mega-bloom for the contest, but for purposes of breeding, single blooms would be used on the “genetics plants”.

6/8/2009 11:01:08 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

That and to use a uniform method of pruning, just to get more controlled results. Top each plant at 7ft, only one fruit per cluster, only one main vine, and top/prune all secondary vines after they have been allowed to grow two leaves. Bury 6 inches of vine at the beginning of the year for each plant etc… Likely with a more uniform method of growing, genetic differences would be easier to spot.

On the other hand, maybe we could just also evolve our methods along the way and genetics would continue to improve regardless not unlike AG’s.

6/8/2009 11:01:25 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

1. Make initial cross for F1 hybrid. This would be done just like how AG’s are crossed in the hope of creating superior fruit next season.


2. Grow at least 12 seeds from the cross, and raise them using a uniform style of nutrients and pruning, and using only single style blossoms. Allow all to flowers to self pollinate. The uniform growing style would be ONE stalk, with topping all secondary vines after they have been allowed to grow just two leaves. Only one fruit per cluster on the main vines.

3. Chose the very largest tomato out of these 12 plants to harvest and save seeds from.

4. These F2 seeds would then be planted the next year. Since not all F2’s are as good as the initial cross, we would be looking for the one (or several) that did turn out correct in size and flavor to save seeds from. These would then be F3 seeds.

5. Repeat. Twelve F3 plants would be raised, and their flowers crossed with another heirloom, or separate line of F3, to create a new F1. The same cross would be done on many flowers, so that we can save seeds from just the ones that happened to grow the biggest and have the best flavor. Even though the traits of this cross would be due to the F3 genetics, because of the current cross (that wont show up until the F1’s are actually planted), it just ups the odds that since they are displaying the traits desired, they have a better chance of having added them to the F1

It all seems a bit more complex to read, but here is an image:

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5198/systematicbreedingofsup.jpg

6/8/2009 11:01:28 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

mh320, prbly great in theory...but trying to convince a large number of growers (all wanting to grow the largest tomato they can grow), to allow only single blossoms to grow, is gonna be tough...as (I think?), most giant tomato growers are looking for that massive mega-bloom to be their keeper fruit!!! Good luck!!! (Seriously!!!) Peace, Wayne

6/9/2009 12:43:16 AM

Bemidji Minnesota

Valid point Wayne,

It could possibly still work, as since the whole plan is just brainstorming right now, it could be tweaked a bit. Maybe they could allow a few single blossoms to grow on the other clusters (trimmed to one anyway) on the vine, and use those for the breeding experiment, while a couple mega are left to grow to competition size?

OR perhaps we could actually just use mega-bloom sizes as well as singles, as maybe this breading would not only increase total tomato size but also the frequency of mega-blooms on the plants.

I'd rather go with the first option of using a few other maters on the vine that were singles for the breeding, as I believe that there may be some structural problems with the lumpy messes that mega-blooms can grow as they reach new larger sizes.

So someone may have a 6 pound mega on a plant as well as a couple 4 pound singles. I would say all 3 of those likley display the genes we are looking for then. We do not have to just go with the best of 12, if in fact the plants grow multiple fruits that have the desired traits.

THe biggest hurdle I see is convincing people to raise multiple F2 plants, in hopes of finding a couple that "did turn out right".

6/9/2009 1:42:32 PM

Pataskala,OH

I think we could train tomatoes to grow on the ground then bury them so they root and let them grow secondary branches and bury them too and set the tomatoes on the main stem. I bet we could double the weight that way. I am going to try that next year.

6/9/2009 4:01:40 PM

Pataskala,OH

Anyone else want to try? We cold compare notes and get bigger tomatoes.

6/9/2009 4:04:33 PM

Nekoosa, Wisconsin

That’s an interesting idea. I wonder how the leaves would do? I am going to try that on a couple plants just for the heck of it. My plants got nailed by herbicide drift anyway. Might as well sacrifice them for the sake of science. :)

6/9/2009 4:15:18 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

What I will do is grow a couple of spare Big Zacs in pots, and take them in doors over the winter. These two plants I will allow to keep several of their secondaries. Next May I will put the plant in the garden, and bury all but 12" of the main. So there should be about 4' of vine and a bunch of secondaries under ground. Will give the plant an "edge" next year.

I will also raise some F2's (to try and stabalize the breed for futre crossing), out of 12 plants some have got to turn out right.

6/9/2009 6:54:46 PM