From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Denmark

I am new to growing giant tomatoes so I have lots of questions. Here is one about genetics:

How big difference is there between genetics of the initial BigZac and say the 7.33 Harp or 5.0 Timm.

Have the genetics improved so much that the initial BigZac is totally outdated if you want to grow a prize winning giant tomato? Or are the chances of growing a giant almost the same?

1/4/2011 9:29:52 AM

Denmark

Sorry I ment 7.33 Hunt

1/4/2011 9:31:02 AM

Wv

there the same not weight but the 7.33 is a big zac someone just cared and keeped records. treetop

1/4/2011 8:16:12 PM

Denmark

Treetop:
Are you saying that the genetics are so similar that the chances of growing a giant is almost the same, or are you saying, that in spite of different genetics between an initial BigZac and a F3 or F4 or Fxx from a giant tomato the chances of growing a giant are the same.

Also: If the chances are the same why are some people willing to pay good money for seeds coming from a Fxx giant tomato?

1/5/2011 3:37:47 AM

Hamilton Nj

jens i think over the years certian people have crossed their tomatos and got great results once in a while with right conditions we see a monster !!! (soil,fertilizer,care,) but i grew theese for the first time last year and after growing big zac tomatos you will see a big difference between big zac and most others in my opion !!! pizza

1/5/2011 8:27:27 AM

Wv

No im saying that as a strain the big zac and 7.18 are the same tomato,7.18 is a big zac megabloom, but as for growing a giant and cutting out a lot of steps your better off with the harp seed,just like AGs your starting with the best seeds you can get and going from there. with that being said dont pass on BZ seeds they produce every year and if you get a good one you will have your own f2 seeds next yr. treetop

1/5/2011 11:46:58 AM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Jessen: The answer to your question is actually pretty complex. Big Zac is a hybrid originally made by Minnie Zac crossing two heirloom tomatoes the names of which are a trade secret. The seeds taken from a Big Zac are unstable in that there is no certainty what you will get when you plant them. The 7 pound tomatoes grown from Big Zac offshoots are actually fifth generation seeds, F5. They are not yet stabilized and so there is no certainty they will grow big but for sure a chance they will. Are they better than Big Zac? Only if you are lucky. Marv

1/5/2011 9:14:59 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Lub,(Mr. Marv) how many years till they are stabilized? Peace, Wayne

1/6/2011 11:33:12 PM

Denmark

Thank you all for the answers. I am beginning to understand I just need a little more help. Please carve it out for me ;o)

If a hybrid is not stable does that mean that F2’s could be identical to the F1 or will it always be a little different as a minimum?
If the genetics always will be a little different then I would say that taking seeds from the biggest tomato would improve the chances of growing something even bigger, but one could also get something totally different.

So

F1 Big Zac will produce:
True Big Zac

F2 Big Zac wil produce:
a)    True Big Zac
b)    Similar to Big Zac but bigger
c)    Similar to Big Zac but smaller
d)    Something totally different


Taking the F2 seeds from the biggest tomato would improve the chance of getting b).

Doing this a number of times you would have a F10 Big Zac with a even bigger chance of getting b) but you could still end up with c) or d).

Am I on the right track here?

1/7/2011 4:46:38 AM

ExtremeVegetables.com

The original commercially sold Big Zac seed is stable.
If you grow fruit from those seed they will be the second generation of the Big Zac hybrid or "F2". If you grow seed from the F2, the resulting fruit will hold F3 seeds, etc.

F2's and so on, are known to produce variable offspring which can show up in the growth of the plant and or fruit.
The F2 seed can produce; same traits as parent, same traits as one parent or the other, something totally different.
With each generation of "selfing" the odds of producing something stable get greater.

I have yet to grow a Big Zac from F2 or greater generations which did not exhibit the same traits "stable" as the original commercially available seed they were grown from, other than fruit size. I personally have gotten better results "larger fruit" from Big Zac F2 or greater seeds which were saved with fruit size having top consideration as the desired trait.

1/7/2011 7:11:57 AM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

By the time you get to F6 the seed should be pretty much stable. If you grow F2 seeds you have at least an 85% chance of getting a tomato that is exactly like the original Big Zac. THe further out you go the chance is less. To me, there still is a little hocus pocs to this all. Many people gew seeds they got from Nick Harp. The seeds were F5 and should have been pretty much stable. Yet only a few people got really big tomatoes from that seed. THere will always be some chance and luck involved. With growers selecting the biggest tomatoes they get say from a Nick Harp seed, and over the years continually growing from their biggest tomato, we may some day have a seed that will grow big reliably. For now, I would not stop growing Big Zac in your garden along with some of these other seeds. Each year we should be getting bigger tomatoes if everyone follows the plan and shares their seeds and we keep some records of it all. Marv

1/7/2011 11:35:32 AM