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On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Almost all growers get their soil tested nowadays. But then what do you do? Are you following what the laboratory tells you your soil needs or are you doing something different? How are you deciding how much of what to add to your soil?

4/11/2019 11:03:41 AM

On a cliff in the desert

I add what Joe Ailts recommends to me after he reviews my results.

4/11/2019 1:32:27 PM

Wixom MI.

The tricky part is finding the right products where you correct one part of your soil and don't throw another part out of wack ???

4/11/2019 2:15:09 PM

Pittsburgh, PA

Cecil Weston helped with my test results from Western Labs and recommended many amendments which I will apply in thirds as the plant grows.

4/11/2019 11:14:29 PM

Morgantown, WV

Brian Langley soil calculator is the way to go for sure! Head over to Team_Pumpkin.org and grab it from the downloads, send me an email if you need help sorting out how to use it. Simple excel spreadsheet, add your own values on top, add desired amendments at bottom, and it will give good idea of your ending PPM's.

Cecil taught us a few years back in Ohio, and my soil has been getting more balance ever since. It's a process that takes a few years, especially if you're off to begin. The trick is to get it closer each year until you are where you want to be.

My heavy metals were high when I broke ground few years ago. They are still slightly high in ratios, but every year that I do not amend those, they reduce a little and come closer to ideal. I adjusted zinc and copper for the first time this year due to testing last year and felt a lot more confident with this tool. It allows you to tweak your amounts to the right dose rather than dumping on and hoping for the best.

4/12/2019 8:06:09 AM

Morgantown, WV

Note for new growers: There is no magic "fix" to make your soil perfect off the bat. The best soils come from planned amendments to adjust the worst offending nutrients first, and through time. I have found you will never have perfect nutrient relationships in your soil profile as it is not entirely homogenous. Also, it can only hold onto so much fertilizer at any one time, so adding and adding to get everything right in one year usually adds to excesses in some nutrients.

Building healthy soil is a marathon, not a race. Good luck out there!

4/12/2019 8:13:00 AM

Grittyville, WA

I like the idea of planting a cover crop then paying for two soil tests... One where it is growing least well and the other where its growing best. Might really learn something about what to apply and where to apply it with this approach.

4/12/2019 8:35:55 AM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Dustin. I looked at the Bryan Langley download and never really could figure it out and so I found another one similar to it that is probably his modified. Anyway, on Bryan's you put in your lab results and then add nutrients moving toward the final amount of each. You are moving toward some sort of a target level for calcium, potassium, magnesium, sodium, phosphorus, sulfur etc. My question is what are the target values you are striving for? Where did you get those? They are not in the Bryan's chart?

4/12/2019 9:08:39 AM

Oak Grove, Mn

It took me a few years to get Excel for the macros to work for Langleys soil calculator. It is what I have used for the past two years. I will spend days, playing with the different ammendments and seeing how it affects the ratio's etc. I could never get it dialed in absolutely perfect..but could see the results of getting it close. I know you have found a few others Marv. Mid May will be getting the results of my soil test for one section of my new yard. I hope you are still willing to give your opinion on what to do with it. I will be looking at 20 tomato plants...probably about 350-400 sq ft this summer with zero prep time. Will be looking for the fastest results in the shortest period of time. Long term garden will take much more care of.

4/12/2019 6:14:11 PM

Morgantown, WV

Right Marv, you've stumbled onto the big issue with the calculator, as it does not have ideal parameters to start the season with other than ratio relationships. This is different in every soil type, so find someone with your soil type and ask them.

I have a target goal this year based on years past and speaking with other growers about where they are. Mike Schmitt helped me a lot when I grew his 2106, and I've constantly asked others since. You'll get some straight answers, and some vague ones. Gotta start somewhere and see how it does in your own yard.

Ratios are more important, I believe, than overall amount if you are adding supplemental fertilizer in balanced amounts. If you want to set your soil high and let it ride, then overall begins to matter more, while still keeping an eye on ratio relationships.

4/12/2019 7:05:33 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

I am thinking that you add your nutrients based on whatever you decide are the targets and then later get a tissue test and based on that add whatever your plants are lacking.

4/12/2019 9:03:11 PM

Grittyville, WA

I am bypassing all soil testing and only doing tissue tests. Call me crazy. This is the route I am choosing. Its very likely my results will suffer initially because of this. Maybe there is mote thsn one route up the mountain... Probably not.

4/12/2019 11:22:13 PM

Grittyville, WA

Maybe there is more than one route up the mountain.

4/12/2019 11:23:11 PM

Grittyville, WA

I have done soil tests in the past so I know where things could be at... not with certainty, but generally speaking. This would drive anyone else crazy but I just accept it & deal with it like the weather.

4/12/2019 11:28:57 PM

Norfolk, UK

@ Glen - I do remember a talk on tissue tests and one thing that stuck with me was the expert highlighting: in the vast majority of deficiencies picked up by a tissue test, it’s caused by excesses elsewhere rather than a shortage of that element. The real remedy then was often tackling the excess, to fix the shortage. Soil element interactions are complicated and the uptake of one element impacted by often many others. I think you’ll need to go a step beyond just adding what appears short in your tissue test to get the most out of them. Good luck!

4/13/2019 2:13:20 AM

Morgantown, WV

Doug makes a great addition to the conversation. Let me reiterate that point. Most deficiencies are caused by an excess of something else, rather than a lack of what is short.

Yes Marv, the soil calculator dials you in, but you should have an idea of starting values you want to be near like overall starting P, K, Ca, Mg... the bigger players. Once I have those set, I figure out what micros need to be adjusted for better relationships. This is my first year in three that I will adjust micros here as my Manganese, Iron, and zinc were all really high from my natural soil. It took a couple years of growing on the soil to start to reduce those to normal levels.

4/13/2019 6:38:35 AM

Morgantown, WV

Also correct Marv, the way that I have been taught to tissue test, as many are trying to figure this out a little better, is to send a tissue sample and ALSO another soil sample in a week or two prior to pollination, say June 1st. Tissue sample by itself tells you very little, as you can only tell what your plant has pulled up, not how this pull has affected your soil's nutrient load. If you are using cheated nutrients to foliar feed directly what is low, perhaps you could just do tissue test, but for learning purposes, I want all the information possible, not just half.

Having a new soil test with each tissue test allows you to compare how your soil has changed from the first test to the second, and you can see more clearly why your plant is short or excessive in anything. Having this difference with the starting soil test and a mid-season soil test allows you to better learn your own system as you can begin to figure out how many PPM of each you will go through at different parts of the season. This number (PPM used monthly) would be an incredibly valuable number to figure out for your own yard, as you can then figure out exactly how much you would like to supplement with weekly to keep soil numbers optimal, rather than letting it pull heavy on one nutrient or another and cause the primary imbalance that then causes other nutrients to be affected.

My lab will do full micronutrients panel and OM for $16.50. They will tissue test for $22.50. This gives me both sets of data for less than what many labs charge just for their soil sample, with a 3 day turn around from mailing. 120 bucks for a few rounds of testing will do far more for my soil and my understanding of it than 120 bucks in compost will.

4/13/2019 6:51:46 AM

Norfolk, UK

I do the hand calculations from worksheets in Steve Solomon’s The Intelligent Gardner - with a higher level of boron than he recommends, but is more in line with some of the giant pumpkin growers. It’s a great guide to soil mineral interactions, and i’d always recommend it. Not actually compared the targets vs to the various pumpkin xls calculators, but I don’t think they are too far off.

4/14/2019 6:00:48 AM

Grittyville, WA

I admire your knowledge Dustin keep sharing. I will likely email you some questions this year...

4/14/2019 9:19:48 AM

Grittyville, WA

@ S Doug... So much rain in the past week.
About 1 ft. If I had gotten a soil test done last week I believe many of the numbers would be off by 20% now? I am going to explore tissue testing further and I appreciate your comments.

4/14/2019 9:29:49 AM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Dustin, what lab do you use? I heard that some of the labs have increased their prices recently. Someone somewhere was saying Western had a significant increase.

4/14/2019 12:21:33 PM

Morgantown, WV

I use Waypoint Analytical in Tennessee.

4/14/2019 8:39:14 PM