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Brisbane Australia

I've been researching and thinking about this a bit over the last couple weeks. Are genetics the primary component to growing a really big tomato? It appears a high focus but cultivation would surely be key.
Soil health has been tuned to the 9th, some of the feed cycles, pruning and selecting of individual blooms and the effort are far advanced to typical growers. The original GG record was around for years and years, from what I can see until some of the Giant pumpkin growers came in and implemented soil and myco/ microbe tech and really threw it at it.

Now we see the record being broken and tomatoes getting to monster proportions.Two cultivars seem to be in favour, Domingo and the Big Zac. Both have been grown for size for a couple generations (one a lot longer than the other) and not much out crossing has been done although there are a few out crossed phenos of BZ. Out side of selectively saving for size and fused blossoms theres not much else looked at.

So how important are these cultivars compared to the mammoth efforts put into the soil and plant health?
What I would hypothesis is that anyone of the really advanced growers could reach massive sized fruit with most of the heirloom beefsteak types.
It might take 2 or 3 seasons but i think it would be very likely. Some line selection would be necessary but I think most of these heirloom seeds have very similar traits waiting to be unlocked. I also think hybridising into the existing giant lines could strengthen the following generations and increase the possibility of growing really really big tomatoes. Hybrid vigor is very real.
Something like this takes time and I think most record chasers won't be keen on lifting their foot off the peddle. Still would be a interesting project and for the long run i think worth it.

But this is just my opinion, I may be totally off the mark. I'd like to hear what others think tho.

5/21/2020 3:48:32 PM

North Of The Border

I font know that much about growing giant tomatoes, but taking what you said, and applying it to any giant fruit/vegtable, i think that both components are important.

If you take the best genetic cross's seed, and throw it in the soil and let it grow with minimum attention, it wont do much. However, it is the same the other way, and taking any random seed and doing the best possible soil ammendments and taking plenty of care to grow it huge, it will still not grow giant.

I believe that the two go hand in hand. Genetics without cultivation, is worthless. But so is cultivation without genetics. The real question is how to make both go to an extreme, and find the best genetics and best cultivation methods.

The interbreeding of multiple big verieties, such as a large unfused, with a large fussed could create good genes to build from, and create bigger verieties. If tou have a single fruit that grows to 3 pounds, and you have a fused fruit that grows 4 fused blossoms, then cross the two, it would be possible to create a fruit that has four fussed blossoms, that each weigh 3 pounds, and therefore have a fruit that weighs 12 pounds.

The trick would be to find large heirloom verieties that have not been interbred. This would involve finding two completely unrelated fruits and mixing them. If they had already been mixed, the genes would possibly lean too much to one fruits tendencies or the others. They would need a fairly equal balance of genes to create hybrid vigour. If it was to mich one, it would be essentially that fruit.

Hope that helped.

5/21/2020 5:08:44 PM

Brisbane Australia

yes very true. What I'm saying is I believe most larger producing beefsteak probably have the unlocked potential to grow quite large. and I would think microclimate will give different benefit to different cultivars, a lot of heavy tomatoes seem to be grown in cooler shorter season temperate regions. These varieties that do well there may not do well in longer warmer season areas. I have experienced this while trying my hand at heavy pumpkins a few years ago. Something to keep in mind I think.

5/21/2020 6:04:57 PM

On a cliff in the desert

Last year I grew a Beefsteak variety, Porterhouse. I got a deformed tomato and saved the seeds from it. Its in my last year's diary. I am growing it again to see if it continues to evolve in deformity especially since it was grown around big zacs and could have been pollinated by a bee carrying big zac pollen.

5/21/2020 8:05:26 PM

Norfolk, UK

I think the charts have been dominated only more recently by those varieties - with older charts having more variety. Certainly Marv's paperback book had a good list of varieties that predated BZ and Domingo only lists.

Lots of those types of crosses are around (see: https://www.delectationoftomatoes.com/store/c3/BIG_Tomatoes_%282__lbs.%29.html) for a small sample - ZacZilla, Westerland, RW Cephei, DelZac, DelMar,
Rebecca Sebastian's Bull Bag X Big Zac,
Bezrazmernyi X Big Zac,
Shuntukski Velikan X Big Zac etc. Others on here i know do various crosses with Brutus and others.

For myself - i only have space undercover for 4 to 5 plants so I need to make them count, tho will be doing various crosses between top Dominago, BZ, MegaMarv & Delicous strains. If I had more space - maybe!

5/22/2020 4:27:25 PM

Norfolk, UK

You might also find this list on that site interesting - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OivHhXeuFgrD1PfF1JmDqQ4wUhdXrDW5gnKN7jAadN0/edit#gid=0

5/22/2020 4:29:55 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

That long list of tomatoes was put together by Dale Thurber. I think everything you see there is also for sale by Dale. He was also the one who rediscovered Domingo now grown by many.

All of that aside what will be needed for the new world record is a tomato that grows large and at the same time forms megablossoms. Usually these have been a variety that was beefsteak. Right now those doing best are Domingo and Big Zac. While BigZac started out as an heirloom, most of the seeds have become stabilized by tomato growers that are or have been on this forum. I know Dale is looking for new tomatoes to try. I believe he has some he obtained from a grower in Russia. Yes, Dale gets around. Some of us have been crossing some of the big tomatoes in the hope of finding the new "king." That has not happened yet but it could. The entire venture takes years to put together with the careful selection of promising tomatoes chosen from many plants. Selection here has been sort of a group thing with sharing of seeds and growing seeds from the best of what we have all grown. We are a disorganized lot but who knows where we will end up. Can a ten pound tomato be far off? And of course besides the genetics of the seeds how we go about growing them is also important.

5/22/2020 5:02:41 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

That long list of tomatoes was put together by Dale Thurber. I think everything you see there is also for sale by Dale. He was also the one who rediscovered Domingo now grown by many.

All of that aside what will be needed for the new world record is a tomato that grows large and at the same time forms megablossoms. Usually these have been a variety that was beefsteak. Right now those doing best are Domingo and Big Zac. While BigZac started out as an heirloom, most of the seeds have become stabilized by tomato growers that are or have been on this forum. I know Dale is looking for new tomatoes to try. I believe he has some he obtained from a grower in Russia. Yes, Dale gets around. Some of us have been crossing some of the big tomatoes in the hope of finding the new "king." That has not happened yet but it could. The entire venture takes years to put together with the careful selection of promising tomatoes chosen from many plants. Selection here has been sort of a group thing with sharing of seeds and growing seeds from the best of what we have all grown. We are a disorganized lot but who knows where we will end up. Can a ten pound tomato be far off? And of course besides the genetics of the seeds how we go about growing them is also important.

5/22/2020 5:02:41 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Looks like my computer has some sort of glitch?

5/22/2020 8:35:28 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Looks like my computer has some sort of glitch?

5/22/2020 8:35:28 PM

Central NY

I don’t think 11 pounds is far off..piece a-cake

5/22/2020 9:27:28 PM

Brisbane Australia

I think your probably right Porkchop. You have found a tomato that has unlocked genetic potential and responds to your climate and cultivation. I'd still love to see what you could do in two seasons with an untested cultivar. I look forward to the grow logs.

5/23/2020 4:19:22 PM

Coventry Rhode Island USA

Very interesting subject ! hi I’m new to these very large genetics , but not new to large tomatoes ! l have a large heirloom tomato plant that I started growing again last year for fresh seed ! Was told 20 years ago that it was a Canadian big boy , but seems to be no such tomato ,so it is a mystery plant , I know we really need to know what it is , for the tomato family tree but whatever could help us get bigger , one never knows it takes some courage! So it traits are it’s a light green indeterminate Plant that has first truss and second truss single large blooms , that produce a plant full of 1.5 two 3 + lbs fruit ! 12 to 14 fruit ! Single trusses around 5 lbs ! Anyway going to make some crosses this year with 6.55 pork chop Domingo ,6.23 konieczny Domingo and also the big wixim 5.95 Domingo x6.23 megazac, all on my plant , I will also put my plant into them ! Back in 2008 I crossed my Canadian with delicious and grew my pb at 4 lbs not bad in 2008 with all other tomatoes on that plant minimum pruning ! Psyched about growing this year ! Good luck to all !

6/7/2020 1:44:11 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Greenbud, why not give the seed a name and then share it with other growers? I am always open to trying some new seed variety. That is how we got Domingo. I would like some of your seeds. It is not really too late to geive them a shot this year. Email me if interested. lubadub@aol.com

6/7/2020 2:08:24 PM

I wonder if that big boy tomato is from a company called Bonnie(I believe Canadian) that claims 1-2 lbs. Burpee bred (maybe 1949) a big boy but does not say it grows to 2 lbs.

6/7/2020 2:26:12 PM

Coventry Rhode Island USA

Marv, I'll be happy to share my tomato seeds with you and who ever else would like some. I've never pruned my tomatoes, I've always grew them to their full yield of aprx 15 per plant and weighed anywhere from 1 to 3+ lbs. So I don't know their full potential as a single tomato. One other thing i didn't mention from my original post is that these plants have excellent vigor. Anyways, I enjoyed reading you first book and looking forward to reading your new book. I'll send you an email.

6/7/2020 3:13:15 PM

Coventry Rhode Island USA

Spudder, Of course it's possible, but I've grown Bigboys and Burpee plants before and the plant was a dark green color these are a light green in color. I will definitely research that though. Thank you!!

6/7/2020 3:18:54 PM

Coventry Rhode Island USA

Hey stillman I know your season is about to start down under there , was wondering if you have the time and the space to grow two untested cultivares ? You would be the first to grow these out ! Two different crosses 4.9 canwixom and or the 2.0 Caningo ! Canwixom is a cross between Canadian x big wixom - Caningo - Canadian x 6.55 Porkchop , or grow the Canadian itself ? Which is a new cultivar ! I believe they are easier on the BER . Thanks MP. Mczjm18@gmail.com

10/18/2020 5:57:37 PM