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Jericho Vermont

I have a couple of plants with stunted secondaries and it seems to be a trend for some other growers too so I thought I would start a conversation with a few questions and maybe we can come up with some common thoughts to change for upcoming years.

What do you use for insecticides? I use merit and Talstar here.

Do your plants get over 8 hours of sun per day? 6-8 hours here.

Is this the first year you have noticed this? 2nd or third year here.

Is there a theme on which secondaries are stunted? First couple here are strong but from 4-8 feet I see this occur. after 8 feet they are strong and normal.

Thoughts or ideas on why this is happening?

7/13/2014 7:55:11 AM

Western NY

I have this problem every year, some years worse than others.
I use merit and bifin.
My 1874 plant only gets about 5 hours of morning sun and every secondary except 1 balled up or stunted last week, my other plants are fine.

I sprayed eagle and bifen 2 days prior but I sprayed all 4 plants the same. I put some cal-nitrate on it to try and help it so we will see.

7/13/2014 10:44:36 AM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Noticed it first time this year. Only affected first secondaries while in hoop house. In the hoop they garlic powder and one dusting of Eight. After they were out of hoops they got Merit and bifenthrin and foliar Agri-fos and Daconil. Did give them root drench of Agri-Fos in the hoops. Same insecticide/fungicide treatment I have used for several years, just 2nd year for hoop houses. Patch gets around 10 hours direct sun. This year I used some micro nutrients (copper, zinc, boron, magnesium, manganese, sulfur, all according to Western Labs recommendation. We did have unusually cold May. Maybe that was part of the cause?

7/13/2014 11:21:16 AM

Omaha, Ne.

Last year I had it most all my plants. 2 plants had it on every vine. I thought it was yvd. but I question that. I also use merit & bifen as foler and drench. but I was thinking it may have been borax miss applied?

some pic of the tips http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=204529

Plus the leafs was deformed http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=204365

7/13/2014 1:44:55 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

I get it on one or two plants each year typically the first few secondaries then it always subsides. I am in full sun and I use bifen and merit during this early time period.

7/13/2014 6:36:05 PM

East Jordan, MI

I have never had secondaries stunted, and we use all of the above listed chemicals.

We have at least 9 full hours of direct sun. How much N do you use? 6 inches of leaves and 2 yard of compost in the fall, In the spring 50 lbs of alfalfa meal, 15 lbs of blood meal, 15-20 lbs of Ca Nitrate, and a tilled in cover crop, per plant here.

Give them some N.

7/13/2014 9:03:08 PM

Williamsburg,KY

Good question John. I use Bifen, Merit and the regular stuff everyone uses.
This year the secondarys stopped growing, the 5th and 6th, then rest were ok. It could be weather related.
I did use N in my patch set up and then when needed and now I have a good one set on each plant I will giving it some N this week.
Thats alot of N Cecil, how big is your patch?

7/14/2014 8:05:36 AM

East Jordan, MI

900 sq ft (30x30) per plant

7/14/2014 10:11:32 PM

Alberta

I'm not so sure its N Cecil...I have had a secondary or two just be dead ducks..I deadhead them and swing a good vine in front of them....Only have so much room..not wasting it on stuff that don't want to grow full bore,lol

7/15/2014 5:42:45 AM

SW Ohio

IMO.. there is a difference between slow growing secondary and a stunted secondary. Slow growing secondary can be fixed with N and a stunted secondary I believe is caused by too much water or other injury when the secondary is forming. Stunted secondary does not form anything but just the start of a root at each node (kind of like a club root), rolls in a tiny puff of wind even when buried and might as well be cut out as it is pretty much useless. If you allow it to grow most times it gets that goofy clustered growing tip on it anyway.
My 2 cents.

7/15/2014 9:28:47 AM

Central Minnesota

Totally agree with Barbeetoo!

7/15/2014 9:39:02 AM

Johnston, Iowa

I'm glad you brought up this issue. The past few years this has been an issue for me.

What do you use for insecticides? Merit and Sevin

Do your plants get over 8 hours of sun per day? All day long sun

Is this the first year you have noticed this? 3rd Year

Is there a theme on which secondaries are stunted? First few secondaries are strong and aggressive. After that they are slow. After the kin they are very slow growing. Now the slow growing ones have that "goofy clustered growing tip" that Barbeetoo mentioned.

7/15/2014 3:21:19 PM

Karns City PA

I'm having the same problem on a couple plants. I use sevin daconil and some companion. My largest fruit is on my 1894 and all secondaries stopped at 10 feet and balled up. Secondaries after fruit started a few inches and quit ....I hope its enough plant to push till the end ....I get about 6-7 hrs of sun a day....my main is about 30 ft idk if I should cut it at the pumpkin because no growth after .....I'm really worried cause its such a small plant.. What's weird is my 1317 is right across from it and the secondaries are rocking right along .....I feed all the same products !? Weird

7/15/2014 6:09:19 PM

Ct

I have been having issues as well. This is my first year with this issue. This is the second year I have been applying merit.
It seems the secondaries affected are usually the 4th of 5th ones down the main.

What mine are doing is normal leafs and leaf spacing for 4 to 6 leafs out then the next formation is the growing tip and multiple buds, tendrils and the froward growth stops there.

I will check tonight to see if I have any to take a pic of.

PG

7/16/2014 11:41:25 AM

southwest MO

I have noticed I get a truer Christmas tree pattern if I take off the first 2 secondaries at the crown of the plant when it starts growing. Plant size or distance out is not a problem here so I take them off. Those 1st or 2nd secondaries seem to be almost as aggressive as the main, which is why I take them when they are little so it doesn’t shock the plant to bad.

7/16/2014 1:09:06 PM