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Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion regarding which popular insecticides we use on pumpkins are systemic & which are contact.

Likewise there is always confusion as to *how* systemic systemics are.

I'll only go into those I think we all use the most.

First the CONTACTS:

Permethrin (Pounce, Permethrin-Pro, Astro, etc. Contact. First generation synthetic pyrethroid. NOT Systemic. 7-10 day sun residual. 14-21 shade

Cyfluthrin (Baythroid, Tempo, etc) Second generation synthetic pyrethroid. Contact. Not systemic. 10-14 day sun residual. 21 shade.

Lambda-cyhalothrin (Scimitar, Warrior Z or T both are the same, Battle, etc) NOT Systemic. This is an advanced second generation synthetic pyrethroid. None of the pyrethroids are systemic. NONE. 10-14 day sun residual. 14-28 shade.

Bifenthrin (Capture 2E, Talstar-One, Cross Check, etc) A highly advanced third generation synthetic pyrethroid. The best of the pyrethroids today. Controls Mites. Top shelf stuff here. Contact. Not systemic. 21-28 day sun residual. 28 days easy in the shade. 5 year warranty when mixed with soil in containers. WOW. (Talstar EZ for Nursery Production only!)

Carbaryl (Sevin, etc) Carbamate. Old. Has problems with destroying earthworms & other beneficials. Known to burn young plants at high rates/warm temps. May cause Mite problems by killing beneficials. Contact. 7-14 day residual.

Malathion> Old organo-phosphorus insecticide. Contact. Supresses mites. 10-14 days sun.

3/12/2004 11:45:10 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Now the SYSTEMICS:

Of the many, there are really only 3 we are likely to encounter.

Acephate (Orthene, the old IsoTox, Pin Point, Acephate Pro, etc) Not a great soil applied insecticide. OK in a pinch. Easy to find.

Imidacloprid (Admire, Merit, Marathon, Provado, etc) Awesome. Easy on beneficials. Lasts about 90 days effectively for our purposes, but AG vines are long & a second treatment may be desirable later in the season.

Dimethoate (Cygon, Lagon, Older IsoTox, etc) Another old organo-phosphate. May damage some plants. Smells awful. Not my first choice but I still have a couple gallons.

This avoids getting into the translaminars & other goofy or banned chemicals for simplicties sake. We can address these if interested.

Always read & follow all pesticide labels entirely before use. Do not use any pesticide if you are not 100% understanding of it's safe & proper use & doseage. BE SAFE!

Steve

3/12/2004 11:57:27 AM

Webster, NY

Tremor, where do you generally fine admire or merit...

Dave

3/12/2004 12:45:42 PM

Tipp City, Ohio

Steve,

Admire 2f can be used to soak the seeds (illegal in Ohio) for the initial application. Article here on BP,com from Len (http://bigpumpkins.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=50)

Also, after about two weeks you can use a "chemigation" treatment of Admire thru a driptape. This is a term from OSU Agriculture Center for putting chemical thru driptape verses spray at a lower bi-weekly interval. Total annual amount would be the same.

The rate for this only lasts about two weeks, this way you control the amount and eliminates waste and drift.

Tom

3/12/2004 1:40:22 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Dave,

I sell it. But since I have a harried schedule this time of year, I'm referring small package sales of individual 2 oz bottle to Brent Richey. He has the lowest price on the web. Less than $45.00.

http://store.seedoutlet.com/insecticides.html

It helps him pay for the Seed Outlet website without having to charge for the seeds (which he can't do anyway).

Tom,

Len's article is very good. I have good results on seedlings with a watering can too. Very simple. Very effective. And no impact on Bees.

Steve

3/12/2004 2:31:13 PM

Webster, NY

$45 is a little steep. How long does a 2oz bottle last? If it lasts a good percentage of the season, maybe 25% or better, it's not so bad. If it lasts a week, I don't know...

Thanks for the info.

Dave

3/12/2004 3:45:08 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

hey dave, I had five plants barely used any of it. The dilution rate is impossible to figure out without a gram scale...LOL

3/12/2004 4:26:39 PM

Tipp City, Ohio

I paid $80.00 for a 16 oz bottle. Will cover an acre for one year at the rate given.

3/12/2004 9:40:29 PM

Tipp City, Ohio

The $80.00 was for Admire.

3/12/2004 9:41:06 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

The 75% wettable powder forms of Imidacloprid require 6.4 oz to treat one acre at .3 lbs active ingredient per acre at the 90-120 day residual rate. So at $45 per 2 oz bottle this works out to $144 per acre or $3.30 per 1000 sq ft. Of the Professional formulations, this is the most expensive package size. But the best price I've seen on the web was $47 & change from a big time Rose gardeners website. Brent is slamming them.

The 2 pound flowables (Admire & Merit 2F) require 19 oz per acre for the exact same .3 lbs active ingredient per acre rate. So at $90 per pint, the cost per acre is only $106.88 or $2.45 per 1000 sq ft. About a 25% savings.

The larger the package, the better the deal whenever it comes to these things.

For those who really have some area to cover, the 88 count MiniDrums ($2235 each) cost only $101.59 per acre. The gallons of 2F are cheaper still at $101.09/acre. But that's as cheap as Bayer lets it get. LOL At thgis level the distributors are bound by Agency Agreement to hold the line.

The retail Bayer Tree & Shrub formulations are extremely diluted by comparison & cost a pile of money more to deliver equal results.

3/12/2004 10:48:49 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Admire in Pints isn't $80 this year. Bayer raised the distributor cost again.

3/12/2004 10:50:03 PM

Roanoke Il

Steve Ive used grub-ex with merit I buy a 40 lb bag cost around 23 dollars. Can buy at walmart Seems to work well for SVB does't seem to work on cucmber bettles. I work the grub-ex into the soil as the plant gets bigger do you think one should incorperate the grub-x over the whole patch in the spring instead?
Bifenthrin- one should not use this product in the patch will it effect the plant as they gets bigger what effects would it have on a plant?
Fungicides what are the best to use what Ive read threw reaearch from local ag test plots that one should hit there pumpkin plants with atleast 3 to 5 different fungicides during the season due to the fact that fungi build a resistance to them. What are your thoughts Steve?

3/13/2004 9:18:35 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Mark,

Many forms of Imidacloprid are available. None of the granular forms that I'm aware of are labeled for use on Pumpkins. Doesn't mean it won't do the same thing.

Whole patch? I do since all secondary roots end up absorbing the insecticide. Here I spray it on one time & water it in pre-plant. Your procedure achieves the same thing. I see this as a personal preference that should have little impact on efficacy so long as accurate & timely placement occurs. Later in the season your method might be working better. But I turn around & cheat by reapplying the whole thing (after fruit set this year).

Bifenthrin is labeled for Pumpkins as Capture. More crossover labels are in the works. Other versions may be used indoors by pest control applicators. 2cc's per gallon starting in June. At rates like this, colateral unintended negative plant impact is nonexistant. As safe as Warrior. But a little more effective.

Fungicides? New thread perhaps.

Steve

3/13/2004 11:27:46 AM

Mastic Beach, New York

Dave.....chuck is right....didn't put a dent in the 2oz bottle..i had 3 plants...
Steve great job teaching/coaching us on this

3/13/2004 2:46:10 PM

Webster, NY

Thanks all, I will probably give this a try this year.

Dave

3/13/2004 4:08:38 PM