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Gourd Zone, WA

Has anyone had seedlings not quite grow normally after the seeds were frozen? I am not sure the exact affects of freezer damage to pumpkin seeds but it would look something like this:

https://blog.davey.com/2015/04/why-your-trees-dont-appreciate-fluctuating-temperatures-either/

Scroll down just a bit.

If you store your seeds in a freezer then effectively the seed is like similar to a bud, and it could get frostbite?

I think I am often seeing damage like this when I use frozen seeds.

-B

3/7/2021 11:30:39 PM

Gourd Zone, WA

Seedlings may not grow out normally from seeds that were frozen, because of some sort of frost damage?

The damage could be from ice crystals or desiccation (freezer burn).

I have seen missing portions of leaves, and a general mottled appearance when using previously frozen seeds, and sometimes a failure to develop normal apical growth at all. I think I will stick with refrigeration from now on.

3/7/2021 11:45:33 PM

Upper Strasburg, PA

From the article: “During dormancy plant tissues are not susceptible to damages from freezing events.”

Freeze them in a container that prevents desiccation and you will be good.

3/8/2021 1:43:22 AM

Grittyville, WA

Well there is proper and improper freeze storage. I am going to guess my freezing falls into the latter category. Most are sealed in glass jars but I think there is still movement of moisture within those containers because of temperature changes. I feel like the temperature changes from opening/closing the door power outages, or even just on/off cycling the compressor might contribute to poor storage. I am sure mine have been through plenty of this.

My conclusion is I dont have a proper setup (like a naturally cold vault inside a mountain in Norway) and I think my best option would be a refrigerator set to "very cold". Most growers probably dont deal with freezer damage. I doubt most growers plant previously frozen seeds.

So I am just curious if anyone out there had noticed this.

3/8/2021 3:25:31 AM

Grittyville, WA

Pic of what a freezer burn might end up looking like?

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=322793

3/8/2021 4:07:44 AM

Western NY

Any "freezer burn" would be seen more on the cots as well, so I'd rule that out.

All my stuff goes in the freezer, and gets thawed out out the day or morning prior to soaking. Nothing wrong with freezing seeds, although a LOT of repeated freeze / thaw cycles will be damaging:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=131163

3/8/2021 8:24:14 AM

Bethlehem CT

Gritty kins it is quite rare to see but I have seen frost damage on Sargent crab apple trees that I purchased balled and burlapped from a nursery. They had budded out prematurely because they had been brought up from the south. Then the young buds were hit with extreme cold. The trees leaves were miniaturized and very stunted. The tree pretty much did nothing for the entire year and then outgrew the damage the following year. The only other thing that I could compare it to would be herbicidal damage.
I would be surprised to see the damage occur on seedlings as seeds are designed to handle the cold.(once they are properly dried) I guess it could be possible though. However I think in most cases the seed would just be killed outright and never germinate.
If freeze damage was the culprit am I correct in saying that the only leaves that could be stunted and deformed are the two cotyledon leaves and the first two adult leaves, after that they should return to normalcy.

3/8/2021 8:39:22 AM

Bethlehem CT

It is nearly impossible to find any information on this, sometimes the cutting edge of horticulture is happening behind closed doors. The only mention I could find of it was on a pot site, and this is all it said.
"In some rare cases frost during delivery can damage seeds. If your seeds are subjected to freezing temperatures (such as lying outside in a mail box) you should dethaw them slowly. Put them in the refrigerator a couple of hours for this purpose." it was on this site.
https://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Germination-Troubleshooting-Guide
Weirdly I am now less scared about referencing a pot site than I am about speaking my mind on politics.

3/8/2021 8:55:15 AM

Grittyville, WA

Lol big moon. Well the day the there is nothing to be paranoid about... that will be the day.

Thank you guys. Some cotyledons are showing some possible damage. It does have a resemblance to glyphosate or some herbicide. But I havent used any and there wiukdnr be any in the soil so I can rule that out. Probably cant prove anything but the next batch is seeds that have not been deep frozen and I have a hunch they will all be completely normal? We'll see.

3/8/2021 10:48:56 AM

Bethlehem CT

Andy Great job finding that old thread!

3/8/2021 2:05:19 PM

Grittyville, WA

Yes very interesting. Good info thanks.

3/8/2021 2:32:32 PM

Cleveland, Ohio

Perhaps in the future consider vacuum sealing your seeds, that should prevent any freezer burn that may occur. Luckily vacuum sealers arent too expensive on amazon.

8/30/2021 10:19:02 PM

Syracuse, NY

Although I cannot run a study about it, all of my own seeds are good for 10 years+ (but how long +?) once dried in my food dehydrator @ max. 100*F for 72 hours and then into Mason jars for maintenance-free, out-of-the-cellar usage one day. I do love RATT. My 301.5 from '05 and my 20 from 2010, 188 from '14 and...still sprouting fine, but not my 100; Will test. Put 'em in a Mason jar and freeze them - at least the Precious Ones. I DON'T recommend putting desiccant in with the seeds, anymore - too dry is just too dry, if sealed to the max. eg

8/31/2021 2:36:42 AM

Grittyville, WA

Now that I figured out how good they taste soaked in salt water and roasted ...will any seeds reach that age???
Ha ha. (If you can avoid using toxic systemic pesticides.)

8/31/2021 9:19:36 AM

Grittyville, WA

...The thin shell seeds, anyhow.

8/31/2021 9:21:32 AM

Syracuse, NY

Hopefully, open-pollinated only and in a normal-sized (2-qt.?) sauce pot with one TBSP. salt, boiled to foaming for 10 minutes and mostly-cooled - you'll swear they're chicken nuggets, lol---The bigger the seeds, the better. Chomp, chew, chew chew - eg

8/31/2021 10:46:21 AM