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Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

I was discussing with someone the issue of following label directions with regard to which pesticides are registered for cucurbita. A strange thought entered my mind. If you are growing pumpkins, and not planning to eat them, then could they be considered ornamentals rather than cucurbita?

Thanks,

Matt

4/15/2004 4:54:58 PM

Norton, MA

Ornamentals are cucurbitas. Cucurbita is simply the Family wich holds Genusses: Maxima, Pepo, Moschta and a few others I can't think of. AG's are included in the Maxima Genus. Atlantic Giant is ther Species. Pepo's are most other Halloween pumpkins. Alex.

4/15/2004 7:18:19 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Hey Matt, Pesticides should be used according to label instructions...most of the time the same acive ingredient is used at a lower dosage for edibles along with the advice of last application prior to harvest...this being said and I'm sure tremor will kick in on this...theses precautions are put there for a reason misuse and or abuse of these chemicals is costly to yourself, kids and neighbors..safe handling will do tyou better and will still get rid of the bugs! Since I grow my pumpkins only as ornamentals and never plan on eating anything from the patch I don't worry about the time to harvest warnings....probably wrong but that's what I do..Grow em Big! Chuck

4/15/2004 8:28:48 PM

Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

My question is more specifically related to the use of restricted use pesticides that are not labeled for cucurbita but are labeled for ornamentals. Since the pumpkins are not going to be eaten, can pesticides not labeled for cucurbita, but instead labeled for ornamentals legally be used?

4/15/2004 9:20:11 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

It's a funny thing isn't it Matt?

Restricted use pesticides are for sale to & use by licensed applicators only. We are bound by law to follow the letter of the law. Especially those of us with commercial licenses. Category 3A normally. The hard one.

General use pesticides that are applied to crops are still supposed to be labeled specifically for that crop. They must be if the crop is to be sold. If the words "cucurbita or pumpkin" appear on the label, you're good to go.

Ornamental pesticides (whether the same stuff or not) are for ornamental plants. Not sellable crops (see the agriculture worker re-entry language on the label). Our Atlantic Giants are neither for sale (usually) nor for edible consumption. So "ornamental annuals" would be covered.

Since I grow my ornamental pumpkins on my own property & not for sale, I will & do use whatever I want, whenever I want no matter what.

Catch 22. "Use of this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling is a violation of federal law". So think first.

Most states will allow licensed applicator to use RUPs off label on their own property (or commercially with restrictions) if they are consulted. I have, but normally do not.

So since I'm sick to death of this crap, I'm going to get a Category 10 research & developement license & the law can be damned. LOL

Quite frankly, the state regulatory people I have to deal with know much less about this than they should. When consulted, they usually learn a lot more than they can teach.

4/15/2004 10:26:23 PM

Indiana

big brother is watching.
Steve

4/16/2004 12:11:34 AM

Montoursville, PA

Unfortunately it is very true that authorities are often paper shufflers knowing only narrow lines of black and white. Often different answers come out of the same office or department. From my viewpoint many decisions come down to the usuer and his or her personal growth which leads to success.

This is true of the healthy patch professors just as it is of the chemistry professors.

We have lots of award winning leaders we can emulate using a wide range of practices. Pick yourself one or two who grow within the principles you like and emulate them. The person who has grown one of significant size with consistancy, year after year, is the type grower I like to observe and cousult.

How do you do that? I pick up the telephone and talk. I get in my car and go to those patches that are managed as I would like to manage mine. I attend seminars and coffee breaks. I then test and pick them apart by asking the same people to look over my shoulder or to suggest how I could do something better. Ultimately I make the decision. I may not follow all advise I am given. When possible I like to follow some kind of an average....and I really like the input coming from growers that have consistantly grown big fruit....using a very minimum if any synthetic fertilizers.

4/16/2004 10:14:24 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Hey I just thought of something. This very thread is illegal in some states. Case in point:

If a person makes recommendations to apply a pesticide in New York State & they're *not* licensed in NY, but the printed word makes it's way into NY, then they're breaking the law. Honest. A past NY States Attorney General banned my employer's industry news-letter because it contained references to pesticieds. We added a licensed staff member to publications, but NY persisted citing an absence of the full text specimen label. NY actually sued us to stop circulation since we couldn't afford to also post the product labels with the magazine.

Likewise, the advising person is supposed to have made a firsthand observation of the pest & host prior to making the advisory.

Cute huh? So if I post something here recommending a treatment & a New Yorker wants to hit "print", we're sort of OK if they included some good images. But if I forget to include a link to the label or some other non-licensed person makes a recommendation, & a New Yorker hits "print", then I suppose John & Ken get lead off to Sing Sing.

It's a good thing I forked over my $600 last month. LOL

Dumb liberal politicians. They can get pretty nit-picky if they have a personal agenda to drive along.

4/16/2004 11:32:56 AM